Rob wrote:http://glasairaviation.com/sportsman/

Bring $$$$$, lots of it.

MTV

mtv wrote:

Rob wrote:http://glasairaviation.com/sportsman/

Bring $$$$$, lots of it.

MTV

x2. Looks like kits START in the upper $50k range.

DJ Balla wrote:<snip>
My total budget is $65-$85k so two decent planes is probably not realistic anyway.

The mission: get 4 lightweight people safety in and out of ~2000’ grass strips. Cruise at least 135kts, taildragger, sticks (no yoke please), experimental is preferred.

Thx

Please rank the following in the order of preference:

speed, taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experiemental,

If you rank like this:

experimental, stick, taildragger, cruise, budget, then you are looking at a bearhawk.

taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experimental then you are looking at a maule.

taildragger, cruise, budget, stick, experimental then you are looking at a 180.

Budget, cruise, stick, taildragger, experimental then you are looking at a 182.

taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experimental then you are looking at a 180hp 170 (if you can find one cheaper than a 180).

budget, taildragger, stick, experimental, cruise, then you are looking at a pacer.

Add in personal preference, insurance cost, maintenance cost, what you like to fly, and personal bias and things change a bit more.

Instead of going down this road, which as you can see is super subjective, I would define the two things you must have then look at all of the airplanes that have those things and buy the one in the best condition as fixer uppers are rarely worth it.

or in other words if you want a 4place taildragger for $65k that's not completely beat up, then

....just buy a maule.

akschu wrote:

DJ Balla wrote:<snip>
My total budget is $65-$85k so two decent planes is probably not realistic anyway.

The mission: get 4 lightweight people safety in and out of ~2000’ grass strips. Cruise at least 135kts, taildragger, sticks (no yoke please), experimental is preferred.

Thx

Please rank the following in the order of preference:

speed, taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experiemental,

If you rank like this:

experimental, stick, taildragger, cruise, budget, then you are looking at a bearhawk.

taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experimental then you are looking at a maule.

taildragger, cruise, budget, stick, experimental then you are looking at a 180.

Budget, cruise, stick, taildragger, experimental then you are looking at a 182.

taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experimental then you are looking at a 180hp 170 (if you can find one cheaper than a 180).

budget, taildragger, stick, experimental, cruise, then you are looking at a pacer.

Add in personal preference, insurance cost, maintenance cost, what you like to fly, and personal bias and things change a bit more.

Instead of going down this road, which as you can see is super subjective, I would define the two things you must have then look at all of the airplanes that have those things and buy the one in the best condition as fixer uppers are rarely worth it.

or in other words if you want a 4place taildragger for $65k that's not completely beat up, then

....just buy a maule.

HAHAHA! Great response schu.

Will a Maule really do 155mph (135kts)? A 540 Bearhawk that has been built well and has all its fairings will get there while burning 14-15gph; it is not really a realistic cruise speed.

This will get you the speed, high da, and stol capability.

http://www.skywagons.com/airplanes-forsale/1968-cessna-182l-skylane-turbo-85500-here-placerville-n3341r

whee wrote:Will a Maule really do 155mph (135kts)? A 540 Bearhawk that has been built well and has all its fairings will get there while burning 14-15gph; it is not really a realistic cruise speed.

I doubt it, and I doubt a bearhawk will either. Sure, if it's got wheel panties and streamlined everything and you are willing to burn lots of gas, then I guess...

I look at it like this, it's the age old rag and tube vs aluminum design deal. The aluminum airplanes with spring gear are just going to be faster. No tail brace wires, no tail lift strut, no bungees, no shock struts, no trim tab, etc....

Barnstormer wrote:This will get you the speed, high da, and stol capability.

http://www.skywagons.com/airplanes-forsale/1968-cessna-182l-skylane-turbo-85500-here-placerville-n3341r

Wow look at that prop clearance! If I had one of those I would be wearing an Alaskan Bushpilot hat with my cool BCP sweatshirt, hitting all of the 3000ft maintained gravel strips.

As said, the 182 is probably the most practical choice.
Another plane that would check a lot of your boxes, but not all, would be the Wilga.

The biggest con to the 182 is the prop clearance.

If I was looking at a 182, I would for sure be looking at the price of the Airglas front fork ($2600) and the $900 wheel if the airplane didn't already have it. Without that, I wouldn't even operate a 182 on gravel. Props are expensive.

This is a good exercise! Thx

akschu wrote:

DJ Balla wrote:<snip>
My total budget is $65-$85k so two decent planes is probably not realistic anyway.

The mission: get 4 lightweight people safety in and out of ~2000’ grass strips. Cruise at least 135kts, taildragger, sticks (no yoke please), experimental is preferred.

Thx

Please rank the following in the order of preference:

speed, taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experiemental,

If you rank like this:

experimental, stick, taildragger, cruise, budget, then you are looking at a bearhawk.

taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experimental then you are looking at a maule.

taildragger, cruise, budget, stick, experimental then you are looking at a 180.

Budget, cruise, stick, taildragger, experimental then you are looking at a 182.

taildragger, budget, cruise, stick, experimental then you are looking at a 180hp 170 (if you can find one cheaper than a 180).

budget, taildragger, stick, experimental, cruise, then you are looking at a pacer.

Add in personal preference, insurance cost, maintenance cost, what you like to fly, and personal bias and things change a bit more.

Instead of going down this road, which as you can see is super subjective, I would define the two things you must have then look at all of the airplanes that have those things and buy the one in the best condition as fixer uppers are rarely worth it.

or in other words if you want a 4place taildragger for $65k that's not completely beat up, then

....just buy a maule.

Barnstormer wrote:This will get you the speed, high da, and stol capability.

http://www.skywagons.com/airplanes-forsale/1968-cessna-182l-skylane-turbo-85500-here-placerville-n3341r

It's got the tape deck stc. Can rock out to mix tapes from old girlfriends!!

A Murphy Moose would probably meet most of the requirements, but probably not price. But you could carry all your family and gear, and be experimental. Not sure what they realistically cruise at but probably not too far away from 135 kts.


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ok guys, be fair, a stinson with a 360 or 470 of frank 220 will do all of that as well. None of them meet all of his requirements. be graceful, for what he is looking for, or his family, the 182 is the ticket. Sorry we all want it to be what we have, but really...

Just Super Cyclone

Its a close copy of a 185

What should I expect to pay for a decent 4-place Bearhawk?

DJ Balla wrote:What should I expect to pay for a decent 4-place Bearhawk?

When mine is finished, you can have it for $195K. I'll be using the proceeds to buy a good 182 and a remote lot where I will build my zen cabin.

Zzz wrote:

DJ Balla wrote:What should I expect to pay for a decent 4-place Bearhawk?

When mine is finished, you can have it for $195K. I'll be using the proceeds to buy a good 182 and a remote lot where I will build my zen cabin.

I'll sell you mine for $190K and use the proceeds for a new jet boat and a river front lot for my zen cabin

Seriously though, I'd SWAG somewhere between $120-160K for a high quality build. There is a BH on barnstormers for $72k but I know nothing about it.

Bearhawks are like a homemade flatbed trailer....

Some are very well thought out and are nicer than their stamped out commercial counterparts.

Others are welded together with a buzzbox and rattle canned.

DJ Balla wrote:What should I expect to pay for a decent 4-place Bearhawk?

It all depends on what the buyer is willing to pay. For me I would never buy a used one. Here is why: one that is kit built, to plans, with a good engine, hasn't been recked, built by someone that knows what they are doing with an average steam gauge panel is probably worth $100 to $115k. For that much money, I would buy a maule or a 180HP Cessna 170 and put the rest into a hangar.

So then why the heck am I building a bearhawk? Because I want a brand new airplane with a glass cockpit, autopilot, huge tanks, extended baggage, seaplane doors, fuel injection, lycombing, and skylight. If I build it myself I get exactly what I want, if I buy one like that it will be worth closer to $150k, and honestly for that, I'd have and awesome maule, cause that's a lot of money....

It's the whole builder mentality: Would I pay $150k for an airplane? No way, are you kidding me?!!! Would I pay $125k for an airplane that sucked 10 years of my life to build? Absolutely!!!!

DJ Balla wrote:What should I expect to pay for a decent 4-place Bearhawk?

Prices on the open (public) market range from $60k US to $145k, and you get what you pay for. "Decent" is a subjective term.

If you are on a tight budget, it would be much cheaper to buy a rough one at 60k and upgrade / fix rather than buying a prize-winner.