Although I am not looking for a hardcore backcountry machine, many attributes of back country flying and aircraft appeal to me. Now that my 5-year old and my wife have surprisingly enjoyed flying I need to change my airplane selection criteria.

I had originally planned on an RV6 or 7 so I could combine light acro sport flying on the weekends with x/c for work trips and $100 hamburgers. Now I may need to partner up on an acro machine (or go cheaper RV3, Sonex, Pitts S1) and get a second plane for the family. I really don’t want the overhead of two birds and still need to do some soul searching to keep everyone happy but I need to seriously consider the option of a 4-place airplane.

I know that there are a few for place aerobatic machines but they are quite rare, quite expensive and probably a pain in the neck to maintain. My total budget is $65-$85k so two decent planes is probably not realistic anyway.

The mission: get 4 lightweight people safety in and out of ~2000’ grass strips. Cruise at least 135kts, taildragger, sticks (no yoke please), experimental is preferred.

I’m sure I will have to make several compromises but any suggestions will help with my quest.

Thx

I assume you want to purchase a ready to fly plane? I immediately thought Bearhawk but it may be challenging to find one in your price range. Bearhawk prices seem to have sky rocketed in recent years. Some Pacer variant would also work. What is the reason you want a experimental? Lots of decent Pacers and Stinsons and maybe some older Maules that would fit you budget and stated mission.

whee wrote:I assume you want to purchase a ready to fly plane? I immediately thought Bearhawk but it may be challenging to find one in your price range. Bearhawk prices seem to have sky rocketed in recent years. Some Pacer variant would also work. What is the reason you want a experimental? Lots of decent Pacers and Stinsons and maybe some older Maules that would fit you budget and stated mission.

Thx! I prefer experimental since it gives me more flexibility on parts and maintenance.

I have become enamored with the Bushmaster conversion. It's a stretched PA-22 fuselage, converted to conventional gear of course. You mate an O-360 to the front, go with a constant speed if you like.

It uses PA-14 or similar wings, much longer than standard Pacer wings.

I did see one for sale a while back, experimental. I think they're more valuable if built as a certified aircraft though.

It's a neat size, perfect for a young family. And you can easily keep the weight down to get awesome performance when flying it solo like a Cub.

Of course there is the new Airframes Alaska 4-place Cub too...

Edit: Did not notice the "XC" part initially. Cub types prob don't qualify.

What you spec out in terms of mission and price is a Cessna 180 or 182 or a Maule.

What you specify in terms of a desire for experimental and stick is a Bearhawk, but not sure you can meet your price with a Bearhawk. Relatively few of them come up for sale at any one time, so that is another limiting factor.

Happy shopping.

I'm thinking Super Stinson or the ever elusive Aeronca Sedan would fit your needs nicely

I was kind of in the same boat a couple years ago. I was looking for a skybolt or similar fun plane for myself but ran across a 182 that was too good of a deal to pass up. We had a 1 year old daughter at the time and I figured it was the right thing to do for the family....Best choice I ever made. We've made several family trips that would have never happened without the 182.

I know your desire is an experimental tailwheel but take a hard look at an 182 (try to find one IFR equipped if you plan on traveling much). Not sure how much TW time you have but for me its nice to not have to worry about the winds when you go somewhere and being able to file IFR to punch through a layer that would otherwise keep you grounded. Fuel burn is kinda high but it packs a good load, has plenty of room and is pretty simple maintenance wise.

Sorry for going off topic, just thought I'd throw my experience out there. Good luck in your search. A bearhawk was my first thought but price is high. Maules are reasonable (other then insurance) but are not experimental/stick aircraft

Chedrick's post above was spot on!

Get out of the tail wheel and stick only mindset and find the best airplane for your mission, don't limit your options. If you NEED a tailwheel airplane for say, skis or 31's landing on soft stuff or any other mission that requires a tail wheel airplane then get one. Other than the "cool factor" a tailwheel airplane is probably a poor choice for you and what you have listed for requirements. Tail wheel airplanes are expensive to buy compared to their nose wheel counterparts, more expensive to insure. Example is the price difference of the same year and condition 180 vs 182. Do some serious soul searching and carefully consider your needs vs wants.

I have been around long enough and seen enough people struggle with exactly what you are going thru that I feel compelled to speak up. For your mission consider a nice 182, straight tail or slant tail, in the long run I am certain it will accomplish more and cost less than most of the tail wheel options. The Cherokee family of airplanes are a good option too.

The right experimental airplane may work out fine but there sure is a lot of junk flying around there so be careful in your search. Your life insurance, if you have a policy, may exclude experimental airplanes, something to consider and talk over with your agent.

Now, with all that said, if you want a tail wheel airplane for the fun of a tail wheel then by all means go for it! Just keep in mind, that may be a tall order on your budget.

Sorry for the thread drift, just trying to help.


Kurt

PS, look at all the cool flying MotoDave is doing with his 182.

So other than a Bearhawk, what other 4 place, stick, experimental tailwheel airplane is there? Seems pretty limited to me.

There is a Bushmaster with a 180hp for sale on Craigslist, Butte, for $75,000. It is located in Helena, MT and the phone # is 406-458-5554. I know nothing about this plane or the owner, but you can call and get the information. Good Luck!
Charles

G44 wrote:So other than a Bearhawk, what other 4 place, stick, experimental tailwheel airplane is there? Seems pretty limited to me.

Only one I can think of is a bushmaster, and not many of them are converted to stick controls. I know of one for sale up here in Canada, but it's priced at 65k and needs some fabric work...
I guess there is also the Dream Aircraft Tundra, but doubtful you'll find one in decent shape at that price point.

A1Skinner wrote:

G44 wrote:So other than a Bearhawk, what other 4 place, stick, experimental tailwheel airplane is there? Seems pretty limited to me.

Only one I can think of is a bushmaster, and not many of them are converted to stick controls. I know of one for sale up here in Canada, but it's priced at 65k and needs some fabric work...
I guess there is also the Dream Aircraft Tundra, but doubtful you'll find one in decent shape at that price point.

Those are the only three I know of.

I agree with the comments on the 182. I have had conventional geared planes most of my adult life, I will however concede that the best single owner most capable multi missioned airplane available is the 182. They are hard to beat and will do over 90% of what any owner could ask.

That is hard for me to write and I love my stinson, but the 182 is one very capable platform that you can get worked on anywhere.

If you take the stick part out of it your options open up - only viable option there is a Bearhawk but not in that price range most likely. There was an O-470 powered one on Stormers a while back and think he was in the 70’s or 80’s.

FWIW, I learned to fly in a Cub and thought I had to have a stick - ended up in a Maule (probably the best airplane for you based on “needs”, stick is a want IMO) and now fly a 180. Yoke isn’t so bad...

TW for me was a “need” the places I fly as was a 4 place airplane. Stick wasn’t a need.

Warbird "Broussard" for sale
1961 Max Holste Broussard for sale.

The Broussard is a French military aircraft that stands for “Bushman” also known as the French Beaver. Large doors for boarding, it has dual controls as is a joy to fly. It was designed as a utility aircraft with many uses: aerial artillery observation post, parachuting, grenade dropping launcher, machine gun mount and aerial photography to name a few. It seats 6 comfortably. All specifications commensurate with a Beaver. Powered by a Pratt&Whitney 985 SMOH 714. TTAF 4470. $85,000
Attached Images

Thank you for all the replies! I had not considered the 182 but it seems to be the most popular suggestion...I always considered them to be tanks that leave deep ruts in our home field when it is soft so I never gave them much thought.

Yes, a stick is a nice to have and not a requirement but having initially learned to fly in gliders there is just something more enjoyable to me about stick controls.

In the end this is all about compromise and I appreciate all the different suggestions and viewpoints.

DJ,

The other wild card that nobody has commented on is your “requirement” for a speed of 135 kts. None of the EX airplanes noted are going to make that speed, though I’m not familiar with Bearhawk speeds. But a Producer won’t even get close to that.

A Cessna 182 may make that speed criteria. And the 182 is a great plane.

Sometimes our passion suggests a P-51, but reality suggests something a bit more mundane. The 182 is a superb family airplane.

Four seat homebuilt airplanes are few and far between, and frankly, one in decent condition is almost guaranteed to be well out of your price range.

As to leaving ruts in runways, there are bigger tires approved on the 182.

I doubt you’ll find a better family or traveling airplane than the 182.

MTV

Agree! Trying to find something with sticks, your speed criteria, and a 4-place is very hard to meet. The 182 as suggested is about the only one that will meet the speed requirement within you budget. Youmight be able to find a uncompleted Muprhy Moose or Super Rebel within your budget. A fellow poster on here is currently trying to finish his. His requirements were similar to yours and that (Moose) is the choice he made. Oh, I will add, that the smaller Rebel has been built with 3or 4 passenger seating. I wouldn't have any problems with putting a 3rd seat in the one I am currently working on, if I had the need. They have a quite spacious in the baggae compartment. I think you would easily be able to find one in your budget.

Outside of the Bearhawk with a big engine, there really isn't any experimental candidates within your price range and mission, and the price will most likely knock the Bearhawk out, too.

We looked hard for a very similar mission as you defined and for the same reasons wanted experimental. As has been said in other threads, if you can develop a good relationship with an AP/IA, you can do a lot on your own with their oversight and function well in your budget. This makes certified planes a very reasonable option. We ended up with the Maule for these reasons and has suited us perfectly. The Maule cost us half as much as comparable Bearhawks at the time we purchased and the maintenance has been very easy to live with.

As far as taildragger, we hangar off airport and the only time we have on pavement is to get fuel. If you don't have that kind of mission, the 182 is a great plane (and honestly would work for us, too). I wouldn't shy away from the higher insurance for a Maule (its a small fleet) as it is going to be cheaper to operate than the 182. A big engined (235 or 260 HP) Maule will get to your desired XC speeds. Our 180 HP Maule will do an honest 130 mph and works well for our frequent 750 mile XC's.

But purchase price wise, I think a 182 will be closer to your budget as the big engined Maules are commanding a higher price tag these days.