A friend owns a large off road accessory business that makes a lot of urethane suspension parts, lift kits, shock boots etc. He and a friend of his who builds off road tires looked at this 7 or 8 years ago. I think the take away was that there simply isn't enough volume. I doubt Wup and Bill made a helluva lot of money at it if any, maybe they did OK when they sold it and got part of their investment back. There isn't much profit in anything GA aviation-wise.

Anyway, hope Desser gets a good product out. ABW is well established and offers a good service.

gb, agreed. On top of that I think what Bill and Wup did through the years was nothing short of fantastic. All the stc's they brought to fruition is a pretty amazing feat.

As to the Dessers, I think they will make many people a wonderful option. They will never be a replacement for a Bushwheel if that is what your mission truly requires tubeless or not...

Landing on malpai ridges I frequently find myself running 3.5 - 5 lbs. pressure. Following around some 'well known' pilot types in the summers in Alaska I often find my tire pressures are considered high by them . In years of playing with various off road vehicles including sand rails, off road cars, motorcycles, atvs, and yes even a few mountain bikes I have never met a tire that would stay on a bead under those pressures. Although to be fair, a mountain bike tire has such a different mission you'd never run it so low....

Again, if 8.50's or Goodyears would suffice, these will be a great option. If not.... Well they're half way there ... Perhaps the larger sizes they allude to will be constructed more like a Bushwheel?

Yea, interesting.. I think they could still have tubes, but just have the stem exit through the tire bead/sidewall instead of the rim.. It would work great and be more repairable..

I've been running the Goodyear 26" blimp tires as I have to taxi on a lot of asphalt where tread squirm eats up AKB's. Tough to justify eating up $2000 AKB 31's that way. When the Desser 31's come out, hopefully they will be usable on asphalt (within reason) or will be inexpensive enough that it won't break the bank.

bumper

Rob wrote: Landing on malpai ridges I frequently find myself running 3.5 - 5 lbs. pressure. Following around some 'well known' pilot types in the summers in Alaska I often find my tire pressures are considered high by them .
...
Perhaps the larger sizes they allude to will be constructed more like a Bushwheel?

I was told by a friend that if you run at VERY low pressures, ABWs grab stones and throw them up - is there any truth to that?


Have we had any solid evidence that Dresser intends to make larger tundra tires than these? Ok - found some.... http://www.avweb.com/press-releases/124.html

...

Probably need to delete that picture, and forget anybody has ever seen it…
Hard to believe something like that could happen while taxiing an aircraft.

mytwocents…

It will be interesting to see what Desser comes up with. That said, what the Bushwheel folks have done, both in developing their tires (which are hand made, I'm told.....lots of labor in any case) and getting approvals for a wide range of aircraft is going to be hard to match.

Also, the extremely flexible rubber compound which allows those Bushwheels to float over so many "nasties" is what also causes them to wear more on pavement......frankly, if you come up with a rubber compound that wears well on pavement, I seriouly doubt that it'll roll over stuff like Bushwheels do. There's a lot of technology and work that goes into Bushwheels.

That said, if Desser can come up with a tire that holds up better on pavement, but still has some serious flex, they'll have a winner....unless they don't get STCs for a LOT of airplanes. This is the big issue with the Goodyear 26 inch tires.....no approvals, with a couple of exceptions.

Finally, I have to laugh any time advertisers refer to an 8.50 tire as a "Tundra Tire".

I wish them good fortunes and success...this market could use more options, and Desser has always been a stand up outfit.

MTV

If the Non-Commercial category becomes a reality with the Part 23 overhaul it could be a huge boon to the tire business in cost avoidance getting the STCs.

Waterboy wrote:Desser's preorder page.






The preorder page says the first run will be experimental, while they work on the TSO from the FAA. Looks like a good fit for the Cessna 170, the 4 ply tires meet the Atlee Dodge FAA letter for 8.50x6 tires. Now it's just the definition of "original wheels" to be legal without field approval. At 10lbs each that's a good weight savings over the 26in Goodyears (23lbs each) and $500 dollars less.

I'm in, I can't afford Bush wheels.

I would love to try a set of these on my 170 once the TSO comes through.

Think there'll be any rubbing issues on single puck calipers?

It sounds like the 27" are going to use 8" wheels and the 31 will use 10". That is according to the rep at the trade show as well as John McBean at KF aircraft. If that is the case, Dresser is missing the boat. How many 8" wheels are out there for cubs and 180s. The only 8" wheel I know of is the ones used on older Kitfox and Avids running the douglas ATV rims.

I looked at the Desser 8.50 tire at the trade show.....no stem in sidewall....tube type tire.

And, if that tire really is what they're going to market, I'm betting they won't tolerate pavement near as well as Bushwheels. That was some REALLY soft rubber compound. I could pinch it easily between thumb and fingers.

MTV

In mountain bikes - the valve it not connected to the tire at all - so shear is not an issue. The rim/wheel is integral to the system to keep the air in. The base of the valve stem is rubber and a small nut keeps it seated against the rim. The tire can rotate and it will never shear off the stem - not that it would ever happen on a bike.

Perhaps the new desser tire has a stem like this?

Zzz wrote:I wonder if they can be run tubeless? For the wheels/tires that are designed to be run tubeless (o-ring between wheel halves) what's special about the tire itself? Is the bead different?

The tubeless mountain bike tire systems can be run at very low pressures.

mtv wrote:It will be interesting to see what Desser comes up with. That said, what the Bushwheel folks have done, both in developing their tires (which are hand made, I'm told.....lots of labor in any case) and getting approvals for a wide range of aircraft is going to be hard to match.

Also, the extremely flexible rubber compound which allows those Bushwheels to float over so many "nasties" is what also causes them to wear more on pavement......frankly, if you come up with a rubber compound that wears well on pavement, I seriouly doubt that it'll roll over stuff like Bushwheels do. There's a lot of technology and work that goes into Bushwheels.

That said, if Desser can come up with a tire that holds up better on pavement, but still has some serious flex, they'll have a winner....unless they don't get STCs for a LOT of airplanes. This is the big issue with the Goodyear 26 inch tires.....no approvals, with a couple of exceptions.

Finally, I have to laugh any time advertisers refer to an 8.50 tire as a "Tundra Tire".

I wish them good fortunes and success...this market could use more options, and Desser has always been a stand up outfit.

MTV

Its nothing to laugh at when you look at the target market for this tire. To a small Exp. like the Avid or kitfox, this is a viable "tundra tire" on a supercub, this aint a pimple on a tundra tires ass...

akavidflyer wrote:Its nothing to laugh at when you look at the target market for this tire. To a small Exp. like the Avid or kitfox, this is a viable "tundra tire" on a supercub, this aint a pimple on a tundra tires ass...

To be fair to 8.50s, all the backcountry flying the supercubs and skywagons did here in NZ in the 50, 60, 70's for venison recovery was on 8.50s. They landed literally anywhere they needed to, and took off again usually overloaded, all on 8.50s (the best available tire option at the time). It's impressive what can be accomplished when needs-must.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing this Desser 27" offering.

Hey, I'm not bad mouthing 8.50s....I've got a lot of landings in a lot of different places on 8.50s.

BUT, have you ever actually seen, let alone walked in actual "tundra"? You wouldn't even think of running 8.50s there, and probably not a lot of tires commonly referred to as "tundra tires".

I've run tires ranging up to the old Goodyear 36 inch Airwheels, and those tires were amazing, as are the modern day Bushwheels.

And, the weight of the airplane is certainly relevant on some surfaces, but when you get into really rough stuff, bigger diameter tires are the only thing that works. The diameter and "squish" are what let the landing gear roll over big stuff.

You're right: 8.50s will take you a lot of places, even on a 185. But they're not "tundra tires".

MTV

mtv wrote:Hey, I'm not bad mouthing 8.50s....I've got a lot of landings in a lot of different places on 8.50s.

BUT, have you ever actually seen, let alone walked in actual "tundra"? You wouldn't even think of running 8.50s there, and probably not a lot of tires commonly referred to as "tundra tires".

I've run tires ranging up to the old Goodyear 36 inch Airwheels, and those tires were amazing, as are the modern day Bushwheels.

And, the weight of the airplane is certainly relevant on some surfaces, but when you get into really rough stuff, bigger diameter tires are the only thing that works. The diameter and "squish" are what let the landing gear roll over big stuff.

You're right: 8.50s will take you a lot of places, even on a 185. But they're not "tundra tires".

MTV

nope, never seen it, only lived in AK 90% of my life and work on the slope.. no tundra around here.. LOL To be honest, how many guys currently running "tundra" tires actually land in the tundra??? I would bet less than 10% have actually seen or walked on tundra, let alone put their hangar queen cub on the tundra.

"Tundra" tire is a common name that has pretty much been widely used on any tire bigger than an 850 for a long time. If a pilot walks up to a plane with 26" on it he will ask "what kinda tundra tire is that".. it may in the purest sense of the word be a misnomer but it is used to describe a larger than normal tire and has been used that way since the first "large" tire came out, LONG before AKBW were the known standard in "tundra" tires.

akavidflyer wrote:"Tundra" tire is a common name that has pretty much been widely used on any tire bigger than an 850 for a long time. If a pilot walks up to a plane with 26" on it he will ask "what kinda tundra tire is that".. it may in the purest sense of the word be a misnomer but it is used to describe a larger than normal tire and has been used that way since the first "large" tire came out, LONG before AKBW were the known standard in "tundra" tires.

You are dead right, I reckon. Especially by the uninitiated.

I was actually having a play with the Wikipedia wording last week, the whole article about "tundra tires" made no mention of bushweeeeels, which I thought was a one-eyed view, given they were pictured in the article.

Also included a reference to Z's Knowledge Base.
*BCP intensifies*

Yep, I just heard that Michelin is developing a new "Tundra Tire" in 6.00 x 6.00 size for those off airport operators who prefer the lower drag and weight of "conventional" tundra tires.....

And Alaska Bushwheels did NOT invent the true "Tundra Tire".....Goodyear did, with their 25 x 11 x 4 and their 36 inch Airwheels, that were in common use in Alaska for years before AK Bushwheels came into being. These were great tires, which wore like iron (there are still some of the 25s in use today) and I've put in quite a few hours on them...the big down side to them was they were 4 inch, so braking was purely in your imagination.

Unfortunately, Goodyear stopped production of those tires many years ago.

Then, recognizing a need for a valid replacement, a company started in Alaska, building tundra tires, but these tires weren't certified or stc'd, so field approvals were needed....which has become a notable pain.

Eventually, Bill and Wup bought that outfit, moved it to Oregon, significantly improved the tires, AND acquired stc's for all their tires....a monumental improvement. They also developed a complete line of "off airport tires", which is perhaps a better term for these tires......

But, I think the new Michelin 6.00 x 6.00 "tundra tires" will be a big hit with the folks looking for cool style without all that nasty drag.

Now, if and when Desser comes up with the bigger tires that they're promising.....those might be the hot ticket. Time will tell.

In the meantime, 8.50s are great all around tires, with a lot of utility, and I may go back to them when my current Airstreaks wear out. Maybe.



MTV

mtv wrote:...In the meantime, 8.50s are great all around tires, with a lot of utility, and I may go back to them when my current Airstreaks wear out. Maybe...

I hear ya Mike. When I got the SQ-2 with the 35's I just knew I no longer needed the 29's on the 185. Thought for sure I'd go back to 26's and get that 15mph back. But she just looks so happy in 29's, and she has such a good self image no matter who she meets, holds her head up high don't you know.

And I think we can all agree that to park, or taxi, in terrain like this requires, at a minimum, 29's. Anything less would just invite disaster.


Of course I am drawn to one other configuration, speed kit, pants and a little wheel in back. I mean if there is a sexier looking Cessna then a 185 in pants I haven't seen it. A 195 comes close, but wow this plane looks good and is well proportioned.


(I haven't forgotten about a 185 on floats, I mean wow! But I'm intentionally ignoring that because I don't want to be accused of thread drift - too late. Actually I'm just hoping our highland lakes don't all fill back up, I'm not sure I could resist the temptation of getting her wet.)