I'm deep into an instrument panel upgrade which will most certainly contain a carb temp guage, very likely an EI product as well

Mapleflt wrote:My SOP is a carb heat function check along with mags during every runup be it on wheels or float, regardless of season or current atmospheric conditions

Indeed, that's most folks SOP. But, then what happens when, after your runup, you sit in line for five or ten minutes prior to takeoff? That's what I was referring to.....just prior to launch.

MTV

My experience with carburetor temperature instruments has been mixed. I'm not sure I'd opt to install one. In fact, I just removed one from my current ride. There are too many variables to totally rely on one of these, frankly.

Just applying carburetor heat every once in a while, and any time you're at low power settings, and, of course for a moment just prior to takeoff has worked for me for many years.

MTV

Might as well remove the fuel gauges also. And use a stick and a stop watch.

Might as well remove the fuel gauges also. And use a stick and a stop watch.

Then you’ll really like the duck and cat method for Compass Bearing and Attitude Indication.

mtv wrote:My experience with carburetor temperature instruments has been mixed. I'm not sure I'd opt to install one. In fact, I just removed one from my current ride. There are too many variables to totally rely on one of these, frankly.

Just applying carburetor heat every once in a while, and any time you're at low power settings, and, of course for a moment just prior to takeoff has worked for me for many years.

MTV

Just another tool in the box on which to make an informed, reasoned decision

8GCBC wrote:Might as well remove the fuel gauges also. And use a stick and a stop watch.

Thanks for reinforcing my point, Ted! Have you ever checked the certification standards for aircraft fuel gauges? They are required to be accurate only when pointing to "E". Duh. Anyone who actually relies totally on aircraft fuel gauges is destined to be disappointed.

And, so it goes with carburetor temperature instruments, at least in my experience. For one thing, they are often mounted to the far right of the panel, since "more important" instruments occupy the space closer to the pilot. In my airplane, it was mounted all the way over to the right.....right next to those somewhat worthless fuel gauges, btw......

And, frankly, the temperature instrument simply offers a "clue" that conditions "MAY" be prone to carburetor icing. Temperature is only one component required to make ice. So, the gauge reads in the "caution" range, do you run carb heat non stop? I wouldn't, and that's not recommended (for a couple reasons) by the manufacturers.

So, I come back to what is in my opinion the best approach to managing carburetor icing: Simply apply full carburetor heat any time you're running reduced power, and at regular intervals in any case. Also, at potentially critical times, such as just before takeoff.....as noted earlier.

If a gauge makes you all warm and fuzzy, good on you. I'd spend the money and panel space on something more useful, myself.

But, Ted, don't try to convince me how great aircraft fuel gauges are......I still use the stick, and a fuel computer.

MTV

Glad you do not build or design aircraft.

This frost/ice crystal detector works well. It doesn't rely on a temperature based warning to the pilot, but rather the actual formation of ice to begin to throw on the warning light.

You can mount the instrument far away from view but install the warning light front and center.

I've only had experience using one of these in a friend's O-470 powered 182. He seemed to be happy with it and I saw it work well on the foggy coast of N CA.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... etect2.php

Aryana wrote:This frost/ice crystal detector works well. It doesn't rely on a temperature based warning to the pilot, but rather the actual formation of ice to begin to throw on the warning light.

You can mount the instrument far away from view but install the warning light front and center.

I've only had experience using one of these in a friend's O-470 powered 182. He seemed to be happy with it and I saw it work well on the foggy coast of N CA.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... etect2.php

Very intriging, hmmmm

Aryana wrote:This frost/ice crystal detector works well. It doesn't rely on a temperature based warning to the pilot, but rather the actual formation of ice to begin to throw on the warning light.

You can mount the instrument far away from view but install the warning light front and center.

I've only had experience using one of these in a friend's O-470 powered 182. He seemed to be happy with it and I saw it work well on the foggy coast of N CA.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... etect2.php

I like these. I feel like these are more like a fuel totalizer and the temp guage is comparable to the not very reliable fuel guage. Ive not had great luck with the temp guage either.

Aryana wrote:This frost/ice crystal detector works well. It doesn't rely on a temperature based warning to the pilot, but rather the actual formation of ice to begin to throw on the warning light.

You can mount the instrument far away from view but install the warning light front and center.

I've only had experience using one of these in a friend's O-470 powered 182. He seemed to be happy with it and I saw it work well on the foggy coast of N CA.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... etect2.php

That system makes a lot more sense than a simple thermometer.

That said, I can pull that carb heat knob a lot of times for $500 + ......

I just don't understand why some folks are so wrapped around the axle about carb ice.....it happens, worse in some places than others, but every carbureted engine has a very simple control to fix it.....

MTV

mtv wrote:

Aryana wrote:This frost/ice crystal detector works well. It doesn't rely on a temperature based warning to the pilot, but rather the actual formation of ice to begin to throw on the warning light.

You can mount the instrument far away from view but install the warning light front and center.

I've only had experience using one of these in a friend's O-470 powered 182. He seemed to be happy with it and I saw it work well on the foggy coast of N CA.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... etect2.php

That system makes a lot more sense than a simple thermometer.

That said, I can pull that carb heat knob a lot of times for $500 + ......

I just don't understand why some folks are so wrapped around the axle about carb ice.....it happens, worse in some places than others, but every carbureted engine has a very simple control to fix it.....

MTV

I can't see any harm in having a few extra tools in the toolbox but we have to still be the Masters of it, not a slave too it.

I think like anything, the indicator is only as good as the pilot reading it and understanding its limitations. I agree with the sentiment that having the information is better than not.

Well, to go back to Ted’s certification point: If this information is so essential, why hasnt any aircraft manufacturer either installed it as standard equipment or reqiured equipment?

Cessna did offer the carb temp gauge as an option in the O-470 aircraft they built (180/182) which are arguably the most prone to carb ice of any engine around, yet it was never required equipment.

With people crashing weekly from this scourge, you’d think the liability alone would cause manufacturers to install as required equipment.

But, as Ted noted, it’s prolly a good thing I don’t design or manufacture aircraft......on a whole bunch of different levels.

I can tell you this, though: I’ve never even come close to having an issue with carb ice. I’ve had a number of instances of carburetor icing, especially in Kodiak, but none even suggested it was close to an emergency.

It’s what that little black knob is for.

Just lucky I guess.

MTV

mtv wrote:Cessna did offer the carb temp gauge as an option in the O-470 aircraft they built (180/182) which are arguably the most prone to carb ice of any engine around, yet it was never required equipment.

I'd argue the O-300 in the 170/172 is more prone to carb ice than the O-470 180/182

Aryana wrote:

mtv wrote:Cessna did offer the carb temp gauge as an option in the O-470 aircraft they built (180/182) which are arguably the most prone to carb ice of any engine around, yet it was never required equipment.

I'd argue the O-300 in the 170/172 is more prone to carb ice than the O-470 180/182

The 0-300 in my 170 makes carb is on a clear day, downhill with a tailwind. So to MTV's point the little black knob featuret prominently in my cockpit routine but I'm equally happy to garner further wisdon via technology on which to apply said Carb Heat

Mapleflt wrote:The 0-300 in my 170 makes carb is on a clear day, downhill with a tailwind. So to MTV's point the little black knob featuret prominently in my cockpit routine but I'm equally happy to garner further wisdon via technology on which to apply said Carb Heat

I've been flying behind ice makers built by Continental for a little more than 3 decades. I know the importance of and how to use carb heat.

I was simply addressing the claim that the O-470 was "arguably the most prone to carb ice of any engine around", which in my experience isn't true.

Aryana wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:The 0-300 in my 170 makes carb is on a clear day, downhill with a tailwind. So to MTV's point the little black knob featuret prominently in my cockpit routine but I'm equally happy to garner further wisdon via technology on which to apply said Carb Heat

I've been flying behind ice makers built by Continental for a little more than 3 decades. I know the importance of and how to use carb heat.

I was simply addressing the claim that the O-470 was "arguably the most prone to carb ice of any engine around", which in my experience isn't true.

I fully support your 3 decades of experience with my 4 behind a mix of 0-300 (170B), 0-470 (L-19) and a assorted collection of carburated ones in between.

I don’t have a lot of experience behind O-300s, so I won’t argue the point. But I flew a 180 in Kodiak for some time, and it was an ice maker.

And, Mapleflt, I thought most L-19s were equipped with a pressure carburetor?

Which doesn’t change the point that these airplanes did not come equipped with a carb temp gauge as required equipment.

MTV