Here is what a guy on one of the E85 websites I go to has to say. Notice the compression ratio---that's what it takes to make ethanol efficient, way higher than what gasoline can tolerate.

some people who have attempted the conversion have recently contacted me with issue of the car not starting quickly and they ask me how mine starts.

I have a E85 carburated 355CI race motor that has 13.3:1 compression and a rather large camshaft for the engine size. Im pushing 580 horsepower from 355 cubic inches Naturally Asperated.

When I tell the people that the car starts and idles with no warm up issues they almost act as if they dont believe me.

Im here to tell you that if the Carb is set right, the car will start and run at the hit of the button..

as you watch this video, you will see that the EGT is 66*, this means that the car had NOT been ran at all, the outside air temp was 66* when I shot this cell phone Video.....sorry about the quality!

also you will see me hit the accelerator pump 2 times....no less....no more.

I reached in through the door and hit the ignition button....it fired and idled.

it is a little rough idling because it is a cold engine, but alot of that is the fact i have a HUGE ROLLER cam in the motor and it only pulls 8# of vacume at idle ...OH YEAH, THIS IDLE AT 1300RPM

IM VERY PROUD TO SAY, E85 IS THE BEST FUEL.

Thing I actually like about methanol is that we have the enzymes to make it out of just about anything.

I really appreciate alcohol based fuels as there are some terrific things you can do with engine compressions and byproducts from the manufacture etc... But I think it's going to take a blend of different fuels to keep everything in check price wise. A disruption of one supply doesn't throw everything way out of kilter. Can't wait though until the NoDak Bakken shield comes fully online - unlimited light sweet crude

I just saw this website and was amazed at how much power they are squeezing out of a 1.4L engine on 85% Ethanol: 200HP

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/03 ... ces-s.html

If my conversions are correct: 1.4 L = 85.4 cubic In.

My O-540 is about 8.8L

Obviously this is not going to happen right away but hopefully lighter more efficient multi-fuel engines are on the horizon for GA.

TD

Weren't the formula 1 guy's getting some crazy power out of 1.5L? I don't want to qoute a number, because the one I remember can't be right

Here are a couple of forums that people interested in ethanol can learn more facts. The first one is geared more for the average person and the second for racing.
http://e85vehicles.com/e85/
http://e85forum.com/index.php

qmdv wrote:So you think that if every state required 10% ethanol in all auto gas there would be a demand high enough that EAA or Peterson would spend the time and money to get the STC's

Tim

I started this thread with the above. How did it get to race cars. Lets talk about Flathead Fords next.

Do you like the 59A flathead block or the 49 to 53 block that has the removable bell housing. Nice thing about the later is that it is pretty easy to stick on a four speed rather than the 39 crash box

BIG WINK

Tim

Oh I almost forgot, they have a forum for that. http://groups.msn.com/FordFlathead1932to1953

Tim

One of the factors that played into a targeting Laser was "beam divergence", Is this then "thread divergence"?

What do I have to do to become a BCP Veteran. I am a Vietnam Veteran. Technically that is.

We surfaced about 50 miles out for swim call. We were also there so guys could reenlist and get their bonus tax free cus we were in the war zone.


Talk about divergance

Tim

qmdv wrote:What do I have to do to become a BCP Veteran.Tim

Run your mouth excessively, I believe. Or in this case post excessively.

a64pilot wrote:

qmdv wrote:What do I have to do to become a BCP Veteran.Tim

Run your mouth excessively, I believe. Or in this case post excessively.

Yep, I see that you have been a member a month longer than I and you have 50% more posts. You have got it down pretty good.

Tim

qmdv wrote:

a64pilot wrote:

qmdv wrote:What do I have to do to become a BCP Veteran.Tim

Run your mouth excessively, I believe. Or in this case post excessively.

Yep, I see that you have been a member a month longer than I and you have 50% more posts. You have got it down pretty good.

Tim

Boredom, When I have work, then it's work. When not, I'm bored.

Just for the record, it isn't just rubber parts. As said above, most parts aren't rubber anymore. They're called 'elastomers', which is today's term for 'rubber like' parts that are synthetic, that is, plastic, with plasticizers to make them flexible. Problem is, some of the synthetics don't like water. Alcohol in fuel also attracts water, and will dissolve some plastics. Polyester is a good example.
Before I retired, I worked with the company that developed the ORVR system for cars (On Board Vapor Recovery). We found that we had to be real careful of what materials we used due to the use of 10% alcohol in most auto fuels. It was the water that was the problem. Remember, water is the nearest to the 'universal solvent'!
Another item is aluminum. In my 170, the fuel lines are aluminum, and they don't like water or alcohol. Aluminum will corrode really fast with either one. I'd hate to be out in the wilderness and find my fuel lines were full of pinholes due to corrosion.
Point is - just be careful what you put in your fuel tanks. I want pure gasoline. I hate to pay for 100LL (wish I could buy 80/87 my 170 was designed for) but I don't even want to think of the alternative!
Just IMHO!

My May 2008 issue of Plane and Pilot came today. Another good article about ethanol research done by Max Shauck and Grazia Zanin on page 20(The Future of Aviation Fuels). Since 2004, about 1000 planes in Brazil have accumulated 800,000 hours of flying using the fuel.It will help show that you really don't want to take everything bsdunek just wrote too seriously.

As I have posted before, Texas Skyways has a STC for the use of AGE85 in 180' and 182's through the R model. Hey, these planes have O rings and gaskets and even fuel bladders.

All Texas Skyways does is raise the compression and put in bigger jets in the carburetor. They still use the standard bladders and fuel lines which I believe are aluminum.

If 85% is approved then I sure wish that 5, 10 or 15 percent ethanol in car gas would be approved. I have been told by a friend whose name I will not divulge that all you have to do to use 10% ethanol is run it a bit more rich than usual. Not a sputter up to 12,500 ft.

Do you think that the FAA was told to fast track the Texas Skyway STC for political reasons.

I am not a big fan of etanol but it is being forced down our throats for political reasons so let us use it legally.

Tim

Just read this new info.



Argonne A new analysis of America’s ethanol industry shows dramatic efficiency gains in ethanol production have been made in the last five years.

According to an analysis conducted by the Argonne National Laboratory, American ethanol facilities are using less energy and water than just five years ago while producing more ethanol. Water consumption is down 26.6 percent, grid electricity use down almost 16 percent and total energy use almost 22 percent lower.

The Argonne analysis compares ethanol industry data from 2001 to 2006. In 2001, U.S. ethanol production was 1.77 billion gallons. In 2006, U.S. ethanol production was 4.9 billion gallons, an increase of 276%.

Thats some great news, sounds like they are winning

Now if they can just get the price of my tortilla back down I will be in good shape.

Tough to talk about this stuff without the conversation turning quickly into an ugly political spat (and I hate politics), but ethanol - IMHO - is a crock of sxxt. Really well thought out plan guys...screws up our fuel and, more importantly, screws up the economy...

from an AP article on the farm economy...
"Among factors that could affect demand would be a change in the federal government's policy on ethanol subsidies, now estimated at about $6 billion a year, revisions in the farm bill that would lower support payments or an increase in the dollar's value, which would hurt exports.

Farm economists question whether the federal backing for ethanol will continue in the face of complaints that soaring corn prices are increasing food costs."

By the time it hits the fan from this bungle the last thing we'll be worrying about it how alcohol affects our fuel lines.

According to Wired, Neiva recently delivered its 50th ethanol-powered Ipanema.

Since 1973, Neiva has sold over 1,000 of the crop dusters, most of them in the Latin American market. The company began selling ethanol versions of the plane in 2002, which makes sense, considering that Brazil is one of the top ethanol producers in the world.

Embraer also has been selling ethanol conversion kits for earlier versions of the plane. According to the company, in addition to reducing fuel costs, converting an Impanema to ethanol cuts maintenance and operating costs by 20%.

qmdv wrote:... I am not a big fan of etanol but it is being forced down our throats for political reasons so let us use it legally.

Tim

You don't have to use any ethanol mogas in airplanes. There are four states now that have mandatory E10 laws, Minnesota, Missouri, Hawaii and Oregon. Washington has a partially mandatory ethanol law that could go all E10 any time the director of agriculture so mandates. Montana has a mandatory E10 law that has a trigger that may never happen because it requires in state production and so far nobody wants to build an ethanol plant in a state that has less than a million residents. All of these states exempt aircraft from the blending law ... now (Oregon was a little slow on the uptake).

No state can pass a law requiring ethanol in mogas used in an airplane, because the STC is an engineering specification blessed by the FAA that requires no ethanol in the gas, so any commercial entity on an airport can order unblended gasoline for use in airplanes. States cannot interfere with that contract because what happens to airplanes on airports is a Federal matter, plus the state would be interfering with interstate commerce, which is also a Federal matter. (This is exactly what happened in Oregon when the lawyer from the Oregon Department of Justice looked into it after Oregon passed our mandatory E10 law without any exceptions and pilots pointed out that airplanes use mogas too.)

So now it is just a chicken/egg game. We essentially have no airports with mogas on them west of the Rockies. They won't install mogas because there is "no demand". Pilots won't buy the STC because airports don't have mogas. We can't self fuel anymore in OR, CA and soon WA because all of the local service stations only sell gasoline with ethanol in it. The solution is to get mogas pumps on airports in all states.

Here is the reason the EAA STC will never be changed to allow ethanol: http://www.aviationfuel.org/faqs/ethanol_blends.pdf
check out Section 11 on page 10.