highroad wrote:Pretty sure all this talk about 10k/min is coming from a news article interview of a distressed family member.......obviously reactive statements, not facts. He filed for 13K, and I bet you loose radar in that area around 10K so..........

Here is the flight track:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N36M ... N/tracklog

The Flightaware data is nice to have. It looks like he started out at a controlled descent rate of about 540fpm until the last two recorded mintes where he jumped to 800+ and then 1200+fpm which may or may not be too significant considering he was descending with a purpose. I wonder what his comms with center were at that point? Hopefully he was able to keep it controlled to a survivable landing spot. Another cold night is not good.

CW

A1Skinner wrote:Yes highroad. It was from the article. Not the best source. I wondered how high he wouldve been flying, but given mountainous terrain I wasn't sure if he would actually have had 10k ft to go down. My bad on picking out a bad line out of an article.

Probably the same article I read that the family member said it was a new plane for the guy, a million dollar plane. Not sure I've even seen single turbine Bo's for that much.

lights on in the caretakers cabin this morning...

The 2013 G36 is listed at $750k so you could throw a few extras into the panel, couple other options, insure it for a year, pay some sales tax (6% for me), buy a light speed or Bose for each seat, subscribe to XM and foreflight, get it home and topped off, and pay for 25-50 hours of instruction to comply with insurance requirements, and I'd bet you'd be pretty damn close to a smooth mil.
This shit ain't cheap when you play in the big boy realm...........

1983 B36TC. Perhaps it was upgraded to a turbine but I didn't see that anywhere. This really stinks.

Been watching the camera all morning. The light is on and you can see the top of the ridges this morning. Hope they get to the site today and find some cold bit alive people.

It's showing 2 degrees this morning at Yellow Pine, I bet they didn't have proper cold weather survival gear. Two nights,even uninjured, at those temps with no fire would be tough to get through without full snowmobile gear.
Survival gear, survival gear, survival gear...........appropriate for the season..............for all the seats you have.......with the knowledge to use it in more than one occupants head.

I have a feeling that given the circumstances though, unfortunately, that survival gear will have been a non-issue. I hope I am wrong.

SixTwoLeemer wrote:1983 B36TC. Perhaps it was upgraded to a turbine but I didn't see that anywhere. This really stinks.

36ML is not a turbine. It's as exactly as you see in that photo. This airplane has been parked next to mine at RHV for quite a while.

I was at the airport when they all packed in and left last week.

That article about 10K descent and $1M dollar airplane seem to be way off the mark.

C

iceman wrote:lights on in the caretakers cabin this morning...

I saw that too, hoping for a good out come

As usual, there are several things off the mark in the news clips. Although I can find the registration in the FAA database, it appears that it was transferred in 2005. It is registered to Dale Smith of San Jose, but I can't find Dale Smith with anything other than a private (no IR) in the San Jose area, except for an ATP of that name who is type rated in an airliner and is also an instructor. Of course, maybe he hasn't kept his certificate address updated.

In my younger and foolisher years, I might have done such a trip. I hope I've learned from experience. But more than anything, I hope for a miracle.

Cary

lotta activity at JC yesterday

http://www.zeitcam.com/webcam/johnsoncreek/20131203

They seem to be ramping up the search today. They mention a fair amount of snow since the 1st, which may cover things up a bit.

It seems unlikely they would have the proper survival gear to help survive 4 cold days & nights in the mountains. That is if they got the chance to employ it. I see high MEA's in the area, 12,000 or so, with terrain up near 10k. Not a forgiving route if something goes wrong.

Some don't like the distinction, but I see nothing wrong with stepping it up a few notches with VIPs onboard. That could include the go, no-go decision, route of flight & all the rest. JMHO of course.

Praying for a positive outcome...

Now that I've looked at the actual route, I have flown that, but in the summer, in the TR182. Lost the turbocharger at 17,000' and landed at Salmon, where a mechanic jury-rigged a repair that got me home to Laramie. Of course, all of you who have been into Johnson Creek have flown it, too. But also summer, not winter, I would think. Pretty unforgiving area in the winter.

You know, one of the difficulties I've had with passengers over the years is having them dress appropriately for the weather. Even in moderate weather, a cross country which requires an off-airport landing requires the ability to walk, which means decent shoes, and some protection from the elements, like a jacket and hat. When I take folks up for a local joyride, I'm not too concerned, but any distance at all, I think, mandates decent clothing. In the winter, that means winter clothing--sounds trite, but back when I was doing SE charter, I had people show up who couldn't have walked 10' without freezing.

I guess because it was drummed into me when I was learning to fly in Alaska, I've always carried a pretty complete survival kit, along with a good medical kit. I recently updated the medical end of it with Doc Blue's medical kit from Aeromedix, and I periodically find something I should change out of the survival kit. In the winter, I also carry a pair of snowshoes and a sleeping bag. I always hope that if something happens, I'll be able to set it down softly enough that I can use all that stuff, of course.

Cary

G3 is right. New Bonanzas arent cheap. Add a few options on it and it wouldn't be hard to push the 1 million price tag. The thought crossed my mind if it might have had a TKS system and been certified for known icing.

As for the 10,000 ft/min, IF it is correct, I dont think it is out of the realm of possibilities. Even if the aircraft had broken up, all it would take is two radar returns showing a rate of change for them to do the math and find out how quickly it was decending...intact or not. I would surely expect at those rates any remaining attached parts wouldn't be for long.

Not a good thing. I hope they can find it before more snow falls and it becomes a Spring time find. Prayers for the families.

G3 made a good comment that I hadn't thought of regarding survival equipment: more than one person knowing how to use it. I want to do an overnight this next summer using just my survival gear. I figured I'd do it by myself. Now I see the wisdom in making it an outing for both Dee and me. Thanks for the insight.

Praying for the best possible outcome and for the family of those missing. Tough news to disgest as many of us know what they are up against.

This is probably a good app to have if you are going to fly single engine IFR. Might have helped them on to the strip.



It's a horrible scenario to imagine, but if you were forced to descend through the clouds and you weren't certain where the terrain was, wouldn't it be best to slow it down as much as possible? Your kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity, so any speed that you don't have during an impact decreases the odds of trauma appreciably.

If you have accumulated ice, all bets are off. You don't know at what attitude your wing or tail will stall, so you would need to keep your speed up.

I have flown single engine on top over mountainous terrain several times before. It's not a very comfortable scenario.

Wow, didn't realize they could get up there in price. Then again, I don't really look at anything but old Bo's. I sure hope we can hear some good news on this soon.

I've seen this app. Interesting and potentially really useful. I wonder, though, how it compensates for wind if it's not hooked up to an AHRS.

Grassstrippilot wrote:I've seen this app. Interesting and potentially really useful. I wonder, though, how it compensates for wind if it's not hooked up to an AHRS.

I believe that it uses GPS ground speed, which factors in wind, but doesn't account for glide ratio. It's definitely not a G1000, but it might come in handy in the event of an engine failure where there are airports within gliding distance. I would probably fly above the glide hoops in an emergency, as energy is easier to get rid of than add it when your engine is out.