Every time I see that video I keep wanting to think it HAS to be staged... but given the decision making skills of some people it probably really is a video of a guy who had to dig seat cushions out of his butt after he landed.

I forwarded the video to a Stinson buddy. He knew the gal who owned the plane now, but assured me that she would never do that, but..... here is the rest of the story:

Well, I was wrong in assuming it wasn't her flying the plane at the time -- it WAS her! I sent a little note to her with the video clip, and here is her reply, copied & pasted verbatim. Sure is a small world!

<Oh dear... Things do come back to haunt one, don't they? Logan
already sent this on to me! I think it was 1999 or 2000. What can I
say? It was hot, I had 2 passengers and thought I knew more than I
did about short field takeoffs. This little field is just outside of
Victoria B.C. and once we were in the air we headed straight to
Nanaimo's LONG runway to land and assess damages. The only victims,
other than my pride, were the gear fairings as I did a bit of
landscaping on the way out.

What was I thinking? I didn't use correct short field procedures and
quickly ran out of room. I knew I was in trouble and also knew I was
committed to the takeoff. As we lifted off my right seat passenger, a
more experienced pilot (as was the second passenger in the back), was
quick enough to yell at me to push the nose down and was ready to do
so himself if I didn't. That instinct to pull up is strong especially
with the tops of the trees coming at you.

Coincidentally I just met the owner of this little field this past
weekend at a fly-in and we had a little reminisce about my
"incident". The field is still in use although I think they have
removed a few more of the trees at the end. I don't think I'll be
tackling it again although a little voice inside says perhaps I should
go back without passengers and do it properly!

On a happier note, I have been doing quite a bit of flying since I got
back from my Nepal/India trip. Mostly just local stuff and several
"Angel Flights" where we fly cancer patients from the smaller
communities down to Victoria or Vancouver for treatment and
appointments. The weather is finally improving here after a long wet
spring. No plans for any long flying trips this year (blew the budget
overseas).

I hope you are both well and wish you a good summer of flying.>

If thats being a BCP then y'all can have it! I wouldn't want any part of that T/O roll...

Life is too dear to me. I have kids.

If you come in at 60 miles/hr. and bring the nose up it will settle out from under you real quick. You must give it a small amount of power right there and then pull it off. Here is a landing of mine into Mackay Bar, ID. I had to carry just a little more speed than 6o because of the left turn on short final. I don't like to bank it with speed that slow. Maybe you are to high when you flare that will let you drop in also.

http://youtu.be/8EPJkvyIt_E

[yt]8EPJkvyIt_E[/yt]

Good flying , would love to fly to a place like that.

With the Horton STOL , plane will fall from under me real quick when bringing the nose up and approaching at 60mph, I had to add power.
With the Sportsman at 50 mph behaves better than with the Horton at 60mph.

Approaches at 50mph light weight I dont need power to round the flare, with weight I give power, also at 60mph with weight I dont need power anymore for the landing.
Now all my landings are approaches at 60 to 65 mph or it will float forever.
This is at sea level, I noticed you were landing above 4000ft, and for sure behaves different.
The Sportsman STOL has changed the plane a lot.

My 1959 182B model is original and I don't have any STOL mods on it. So I can't tell you anything about that. Just try to ge closer to the ground before you pull the nose up and you will not float to far. You will be rolling out. I like to actually be landing before I am ready to land on a short field. One More video. 1840 ft long, at 2680 MSL. dirt runway with a mud hole in the middle.

http://youtu.be/2BNXoI480BI

[yt]2BNXoI480BI[/yt]

GumpAir wrote:

motoadve wrote:Whats the trick to loose alt but keep the same speed?I tried to pull the yoke and what happens is airspeed is reduced and alt maintained.

The "trick" is your trim wheel. The more you use it, the better you learn it, the more stable your approaches. If you're not trimmed properly, just a few ounces of more/less pressure on the yoke can make a huge difference in your airspeed. Then you're chasing needles, airspeed, and energy.

Gump

Gump is correct. And we can't forget the ol'forward slip, if it's about losing altitude and keeping airspeed. But not to much flap on the Cessna's.

Hello everyone. After browsing this board as a guest for some time I have finally decided to register. I fly around North Texas and regularly enjoy grass strips in the area, especially 3T0 Cedar Mills. Currently working on getting my commercial, and working on my short/soft field technique and finesse. 330hrs TT
Now that I am really looking at my technique critically, I can't say I've performed a consistently good soft field landing with full flaps (30deg) in my 2002 182. Over the fence at 61-65kts, milk out power in the flare and try to feel for that "break" in the flare before adding a squirt of power. Not happening nicely. Either I'm a bit too late, or too early and mush along the runway prolonging ground contact in ground effect. In contrast, I've also been flying a 1978 RG182 for my complex requirements, and with 40deg flaps 61-65kts over the fence, I feel I get a more "crisp" break in the flare into landing attitude that gives me an identifiable moment to add that squirt of power. Perfect soft field.
I'm getting frustrated in not being able to "feel for my toes" in the 02 version, whilst having an easier time in the 1978 bird. Odd? Also having trouble with spot short field landings (w/in 100ft of T/D point) and I hate dragging it in behind the power curve, but seem to have to aim for the dirt and float over the fence already in the flare to make it happen... Other times though, that would end up with a premature landing. I.e. not a consistent response when I cut power...
Anyway, hello to everyone and happy to PM with local pilots. Any input highly appreciated!

It's rare your going to have a completely consistent response. Every time you fly and even every landing you do on a flight, the air density, the wind direction, the weight and CG, the air temp, and even things like sunlight vs. shade on the runway asphalt will make a difference. If your technique is correct, then practice, practice, and more practice will allow you to increase your comfort zone getting close to the ground and slow, which are the two main requirements for precise short field spot landings.

In my expirience, the most important thing hitting precise short field landings is having confidence in what the aircraft will and won't do in any particular configuration. The only way I know to get that confidence is by real world practice. The more you practice, the more your comfort zone will increase, which will allow you to fly the aircraft closer to the edge of what it is capable of.

In normal ops, airspeed and altitude make every pilot feel safer (myself included), and the more the better. In any short field/spot landing scenairo you're going to be intentionally operating with a minimum of both. It can be pretty uncomfortable doing so, which is probably a good thing.

The biggest technique mistake I see most pilots make is not being willing to work the throttle. For some reason, even though a lot of pilots seem to have no problem yanking the flight controls around, yet they seem to be afraid to touch the throttle and are only willing make very gradual and minimal adjustments. That just isn't going to work when you're trying to land short and hit a precise spot.

Slightly off-topic.
Why is side slip and forward slip terminology in the UK reversed from that used in the US?

JimC wrote:Slightly off-topic.
Why is side slip and forward slip terminology in the UK reversed from that used in the US?

It probably has something to do with them driving on the wrong side of the road.

Since this thread has already been hijacked here is the reason we drive on the right side of the road. Goes back to horse and buggy days. It is because the Brits drive on the left. (Think revolutionary war times)

Simple as that. (And completely useless information to occupy space in your brain)

LittleGoat182 wrote: Other times though, that would end up with a premature landing. I.e. not a consistent response when I cut power...
Any input highly appreciated!

Ok that last line means I don't have to be an expert. Try this, at safe altitude, power back and slow fly it in descent but set up for landing, keep bringing it back until it stalls. This is to be a simulated flare. Do that stall every day before you practice your short field landings. Be sure to look at the sight picture in descent and hold your target point on the ground during the descent before the flare. Use the same setup and throttle going in. It will help you recognize the differences in air that exist on that particular day from the day before and doing this before a landing will also help adjust your "feel" before you land at a higher elevation strip than you took off from. It will become a short "feeled" landing. Right hand stays on the throttle for a reason.

And for those already off topic.
http://users.telenet.be/worldstandards/ ... ghtdriving

Interesting thread.

The only time I end up doing a proper, full on STOL landing is if I've made a hash of the approach or had a gust of wind up my ass on landing somewhere relatively short. If I flew that close to the limits all the time, I probably wouldn't last long in my job; especially since pretty much all the landings I do are at all up landing weight (you don't make money flying empty!). That's not to say it's not worth practising for those moments when you really do need to haul 'er up quick before you go off the end of an airstrip thanks to a 15kts tailwind in a one way valley with no option but to land...

The objective of the true short field landing is to arrive at the very beginning of the landing zone with no zoom reserve in the form of airspeed (kinetic energy of pressure airspeed) and no zoom reserve in the form of altitude (realized gravity thrust of altitude.) That means that the altitude has to be zero and airspeed has to be stall or less (with power and ground effect) at this point. The two possible ways to do this have been mentioned somewhat and full flaps, regardless of gusts are mandatory. With gusts, dynamic throttle will be mandatory.

What Wolfgang Langewiesche called the "stall down" can be the at a steep angle to go over obstructions or terrain and get in on nearest possible beginning of the LZ or it can be the drag it in behind the power curve in ground effect (no obstructions.)

Another method is the apparent brisk walk rate of closure approach, taught in Army helicopter school. It works just as well for airplanes. Look down while cruising at 500' and you will see an apparent brisk walk. From 500' down, the lower we get the faster we appear to be going. From 1/4 mile out, the closer we get, the faster we appear to be going. Using elevator to maintain this apparent brisk walk rate of closure and using power to control the glide angle (if over obstructions) will cause us to reliably touch down at the very beginning of the LZ every time. What we have done here is to eliminate, or at least mitigate, the need for the round out, flair, and hold off that can take us uncontrollably well down the runway or LZ. With nose gear, we do have to pull back a bit to protect it. Be careful not to get going backwards in a strong headwind. In a down wind we will often go behind the power curve requiring considerable power.

What someone said about feel is important. The airspeed indicator is a dangerous distraction. Cover it up. The mechanics cut the pitot off the first time they re-fabric a Pawnee. We hear the reduction in relative wind, we feel the decrease in buoyancy and stick pressure, we see the apparent rate of closure out the windscreen. Pull back on the stick a bit. If the glide angle shallows rather than steepens, we are going too fast. Reduce power. If we mush down, good. Add a little power to manage the sink.

Mountain Matt took this video this past weekend at the Caveman Ranch. You will see I hang on the prop through out the entire approach landing at around 35mph with a high AOA with full control and rolling to a stop at around 100'. I sure love my WingX / Sportsman / MT Prop. Its almost cub like. I could have very easily landed on my tail wheel first but that does not help you when you come down hard on the airframe.

Lots of folks on here talking about techniques. Anyone have some videos? I have watched this video about 50 times now and see something new every time. Thanks for sharing Matt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN9Em2qX1Wo&feature=player_embedded

AKT

aktahoe1 wrote:Mountain Matt took this video this past weekend at the Caveman Ranch. You will see I hang on the prop through out the entire approach landing at around 35mph with a high AOA with full control and rolling to a stop at around 100'. I sure love my WingX / Sportsman / MT Prop. Its almost cub like. I could have very easily landed on my tail wheel first but that does not help you when you come down hard on the airframe.

Lots of folks on here talking about techniques. Anyone have some videos? I have watched this video about 50 times now and see something new every time. Thanks for sharing Matt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN9Em2qX1Wo&feature=player_embedded

AKT

Very nice AKT

I think the Cessna's did a pretty good job during the shortfield landing contest!

Second video shows the take off first.

aktahoe1 wrote:Mountain Matt took this video this past weekend at the Caveman Ranch. You will see I hang on the prop through out the entire approach landing at around 35mph with a high AOA with full control and rolling to a stop at around 100'. I sure love my WingX / Sportsman / MT Prop. Its almost cub like. I could have very easily landed on my tail wheel first but that does not help you when you come down hard on the airframe.

Lots of folks on here talking about techniques. Anyone have some videos? I have watched this video about 50 times now and see something new every time. Thanks for sharing Matt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN9Em2qX1Wo&feature=player_embedded

AKT

I was watching that one from up on the deck.
Very nice!