That made me queasy. I'm not saying you're doing it wrong but here's why I don't get my skylane that flat or slow any more:

1) Why? You'll never get out of a 500' strip even if you can land there.
2) I practice all my short field landings power off because an engine failure is the only real world situation I'll need to stuff it somewhere shorter than 1500'
3) Skylanes are a heavy machine when grossed out (I know you weren't) that's a lot of inertia to get moving again if the wind changes by 5 knots while the horn's sqeeking.
4) Dragging it in flat and powered means you're fukked if the fan quits turning.
5) I rarely land with more flap than I can go around with, that's 20 degrees for mine. I fly around ag planes a lot and I've had to go around more than once when "box of chocolates flying service" rolled out in front of me or landed coming my way. Once I had 40 hanging on short final with my whole family onboard and lots of gas, an Airtractor rolled out for departure right in front of us and it was tough to get a positive rate of climb again from that altitude and speed with that much flap. The difference for me between 20 and a forward slip and 40 isn't much and I can firewall it and climb immediately with 20.

Looks like a fun area to fly.

I went into an 800 foot strip once last year with the 182, at gross, hot day. I was flying a 206 mainly (been into this very strip with it a few days before) and this time was helping out some friends with my own airplane. I had lost the feel for the 182 that I once had (flying it rarely the last year, rather than almost daily) and floated beyond the touchdown spot. The strip had a bit of a curve to it and brush close in on both sides. I poured on the coals (not a moment too soon), and between the high temps, heavy load, and basically recovering from a power off stall with full flaps at 1 foot AGL, I staggered it around the bend and went off the end brushing the dirt off the tires for the next 1/2 mile. Once a positive rate of climb was established, my knees were knocking and I was sweating bullets. I flew downriver a short distance to the "Plan B" airstrip (longer) and let my cousin ferry them over to the short strip in the 180. Other than making a mental note for the "Never Again" chapter of my memoir, I didn't think much about it. The next morning I was heading out early in the 182 and during the preflight I found that the left nav and stobe lights were gone, and found a dent in the leading edge that looked to be caused by a Louisville slugger in the hands of a real pro.

That being said, the 182 can be a great short-field performer if you stay proficient. I used to practice stop and goes on gravel bars less than 800 feet long (light, me and a friend and ~2hrs fuel) and would set the tires on the water's edge, come to a stop, turn around and go. It always got off shorter than it landed, and I knew it would. I practiced in it all the time, had it down to a science, and had a blast. The trick is, practicing. Use the throttle as long as it's available, and pound out those touch and goes, or stop and goes, until you've got it to an art. You'll know when you do, and then just keep flying to stay sharp. 1500' strips in my neck of the woods aren't uncommon, and knowing how to get your plane in and out of shorter strips is just another trick in the bag every pilot should have.

Nosedragger wrote:1) Why? You'll never get out of a 500' strip even if you can land there.

I thought the internet mojo was that 182s got off shorter than 180s? Never? maybe not 500' at gross at Leadville.... but many places, light, 500' should be almost twice what you need to get out

born2flyak wrote:I went into an 800 foot strip once last year with the 182, at gross, hot day.... then oopps moment...then... I flew downriver a short distance to the "Plan B" airstrip (longer) and let my cousin ferry them over to the short strip in the 180....

There have been countless threads on this forum and others over the c182 vs c180 issues.... I would sure like to quote these guys the next time the big chested 182 driver spouts out 'I'll follow a 180 anywhere, and get off shorter due to my tail rotating further'

Moto, you are landing left because you can.... (IOW, you are using all you have and all you want) I have no doubt you could land on a strip half as wide just fine, but you'd still land left. Fact of the matter is, if you had to set the bird down on something only half again as wide as the gear, you'd probably still do just fine, and still land left.... IMHO, If you don't strive to perfect, you will always use whatever available (no so bad), but never reach your true potential (kinda bad).

Beyond that you are landing left because you are using your peripheral vision to keep centered up by splitting the width of the runway. This is wayyyyyy better than planting 'X' rivet on the center line, and it is the correct way to land a tail dragger... I would never recommend the rivet as a reasonable solution to landing... (there i go with bogus opinions again)....How in the world do you do that number in a Steaman or for that matter a J3? Keep using your peripheral vision... just fine tune it.

BTW.... I tend to land on the runway.... and unless it is a marginal operation, I rarely give a hoot what part of the runway I hit

Take care, Rob

Rob wrote:

Nosedragger wrote:1) Why? You'll never get out of a 500' strip even if you can land there.

I thought the internet mojo was that 182s got off shorter than 180s? Never? maybe not 500' at gross at Leadville.... but many places, light, 500' should be almost twice what you need to get out

Ah, a reminder that ALL GENERALIZATIONS ARE FALSE. My POH says that a brand new 182 with no nicks, dings, or defects can fly in 300 feet on a standard day from a hard surface with a good pilot and a jug of gas in each tank. If you need to clear a 50' obstacle though, that same scenario requires 700'. So, I retract my previous statement. If you need to get off of a carrier or a paved sandbar in the ocean, you're as good as a Cessna test pilot, and have a new plane, you can get out in 500 feet.

For us Idaho guys, any short strip I can think of is short for a reason and ground roll is irrelevant, in fact 50' is usually irrelevant, more like over 100' obstacle.

I had (still have) a 1970 182 (put over 1500 hours on it) along with several on this forum flying daily at 6000' (light) getting out and off the ground in under 500' very easily....You could say over a 50' obstacle at 700'..thats fair for 6000'.

However......

My 53 180 BLOWS THE DOORS OFF IT!!! Not puffing my chest here but serisouly there is just no comparison.

I think we need a STOL event at JC. I can promise you that a 182 will not even come close.

As for the center line, like the other said...if your not landing on it your not doing it properly. Period. Land on the center line and do it over and over. You dont take off on one side or the other, so dont land there. It will only cause you problems down the road. Hit your mark without comprimise and land on the center line.

AKT

I could not hit the center line if I tried @ TRK.....I always land to the left.....not sure I want to have a stol comp against ur 182.....seen it get out and go pretty damm short.

Your correct buddy...thats only because my 182 is the greatest 182 you will ever see. Maybe someone should by it. Given that I just purchased some new BW's today I REALLY need to sell it! Not certain how I am going to get this one by the wife...

All this 3 degree stuff and VASI and Papi ...maybe we sould look into those and put one on the island so we can go IFR into it...Starting to feel like a real smart ass here...sorry. Had a few beers and trying to figure out how to tell the wife before she goes online and looks at our bank statement...I can just hear it..."what is Alaskan Bushwheel Inc?" I am in deep trouble...Maybe I will have two planes for sale in the morning...

Vail...you dont hit the center line because your plane is crooked, remember...

I also fly the 180 at work, and it makes my 182 feel like it's dragging a parachute down the runway on takeoff. I have a '73 182 with no mods except a Landes fork with an 8.00 and 8.50s on the mains. The 180 has so many mods it should probably be called a Cessna 183 or 184... Wing extentions, Sportsman cuff, VG's, seaplane prop, etc...So the 182 needn't feel too bad. The problem I encountered was not the airplane's fault at all, it was pilot error. 600 hours in it wasn't worth much of a darn after only flying it occasionally in the last year, and then only in and out of 4,000-11,000' asphalt runways...

dont think i would stuff the 182 in a short one with a 470 non-turbo in it...the 540 WITH the turbo rocks it pretty good...! have/had both...

Wow. Costa Rica. What kind of density altitudes do you get there? Here in WY, we are often making short field landings at 7000-9000 ft. I'm working on my precision, and varying atmospheric conditions just complicate things even more. For me, in a Super Cub, I've learn a brief shot of throttle (forward a couple inches then right back) will pick me up about 5 kts and that's often all I need to hit my spot just right, sometimes I do that more than once. It also "clears the throat" to verify that the engine is still opperating properly if you should decide to go-around. You could try and see how that works in your aircraft. Also, if I really need or want to land short, I want full flaps and my stick full back at touch down for an as-slow-as-possible full stall landing. I was always told when flying tricycle gear that I should have the yoke full back on landing them too, just so I don't fall into the lazy, tricycle gear habit of "driving in onto the runway". We should always touchdown as slow as the aircraft and wind conditions allow, making sure not to flare too high.

Hey,, better to have a big bill show up on your credit card from Alaska Bushwheel than from the Alaska Bush Co

aktahoe1 I hope you don't find your dog tied up behind your SUV this a.m. .....

Still practicing

Very Nice!!!!!

"A Dead Horse"

Super-Maule wrote:"A Dead Horse"

Amen!

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nice job at couriers strip with your maule, utah. those 540's do get it done...

how about short field take offs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoiPpDeQ ... r_embedded

John,
That had to be about the scariest takeoff I have seen. I thought it was all over when he clipped those bushes.