In an effort to avoid hijacking a FS: thread. I figured I would just start a new one. We all know that the C180/185 is a great airframe. However, empty weights range all over the place. Mostly, I suspect from a lack of actual weighing. For example, the calculated weight and balance on our 180 when we purchased it said empty wight was 1830 on 6.00 x 6 tires. We began the process of taking out old avionics and interior and quickly found ourselves with a calculated empty wight of 1660 on 29" Bushwheels, and we were quite happy with that. Then we actually weighed it . 1790 actual empty weight. Our airplane was almost 100 Lbs heavier than the calculated Weight and Balance. We have since taken out, even more, stuff, and now have an ACTUAL empty weight of 1730 on 29" Bushweels.

I wanted to start a thread where we all can share our 180 or 185 empty weights, last time they were weighted, and any mods were done to them, and maybe a pic or two. I think It would be great if we could have a thread dedicated to just empty weights, and perhaps a somewhat similar format between them.

My Submission:

1958 C-180, Last weighed June 2016, Actual empty weight 1732, 29" Bushweels, Baby Bushweel Tailwheel, Sportsman STOL, Articulating front seats, 82" C66 Prop, O-470K, Heavy Starter, Heavy Battery, Old headliner.

Pannel Before:

Pannel Now:

My thoughts on this are simple; if your airplane calculated weight seems light, it most likely is, don't weigh it!

Calculated weight is just as legal as actual weight, so unless you have some safety concerns about your airplane maybe being heavier than calculated, don't weigh it!

If your curiosity gets the better of you and you just have to weigh your airplane make sure you have the A&P leave the room and decide in private if you want to change the records.

As painful as it may be to find out that your baby weighs more than some piece of paper says she should, I'd much rather know the real weight. Calculated weights based on factory numbers are easily 100lbs off.

What is the deal with the gross weight increase in Alaska?
I thought I heard you could add 10% to your gross weight?

Has insurance ever not paid because they weighed the plane and it was over gross? Even though the calculated weight was lower? It's hard to figure out performance figures if you are 100 or more lbs off on your weight...

That's said, my 1962 E model 180 is 1753lbs with the stock rear seat, factory float kit, Horton STOL, 8.50s, bubble windows, heavy 3 blade Hartzell, heavy starter, light weight FW mounted battery, LR tanks, extended baggage.

As of 2003, my A185F IFR amphib is sitting at 2400lbs,

That's on Edo 2790s, GNS430/530, 330 transponder, garmin audio panel, STEC autopilot with alt hold and GPSS, normal stock engine instruments, sandel EHSI and a JPI 700, CD player, sounder, LR tanks, 1-3 row seats (bench seat row 2 and folding metal tube row 3), bare plastic interior sides, carpet and headliner, bubble windows, heavy starter and rear battery, ACK ELT, 5 place intercom, 3 blade prop, and aileron trim. Robertson STOL.


I'm looking to yank all the stock engine instruments and JPI, replace them with a EI all in one round gauge, ditch the CD player, sounder, clock and hobbs, go through the wiring, add a light weight starter, make a new weight and balance sheet for just row 1 seats, and another for row 1 & 2. I'd also yank the aileron trim if it wasnt as light as it is and wasn't as much of a process to remove.

1976 A185F. 18502909. Pushing 1900 lb. empty. IO-550, MT 3 blade. King digital panel. Articulating seats, 4 seats total. Rear battery. No STOL kit. 6:00 X 6. Heavy upholstery and carpet. Float kit.

Planning to go to the firewall battery, and flat floor baggage, but add a hydraulic pump for Aerocets in the tail plus the hand pump. Lakevue second row seats are in hand. Lighter carpet and upholstery planned. Panel will be upgraded, but this is also my cross country cruiser, so I may end up with Aspen, GPS Nav com, etc. Would like to ditch the Vacuum pump, so maybe a Sandia or L3 backup EFIS. Probably still a net weight increase though. I hope I can keep it under 1900 on wheels. We just added secondary seat stop, door stewards, and planning PPonk gear kit, so it's really hard to keep these things from getting fat. I also carry a lot of "stuff".

The solution is more power!

1975 185F. Last weighed in late 74 when it came out of the factory. Factory IFR panel, 2 blade 86 prop. Only STC's on the plane are 8.50's and a center fuel drain. Full Factory interior. 2100 hours. Current weight is 1859#. From having other 180's, I have no doubt that it's closer to 2k empty. I plan to have it weighed next annual.

1953 C180
88" McCauley prop, K engine
firewall-mounted odyssey
boot cowl steps & handles
185 gear legs, double-pucks, 850's
minimal panel, V brace
BAS jump seats & shoulder harnesses
aluminum-floored extended baggage
BAS pull handles
heavy stinger & 10" XP t/w
weighed by me Feb 2015 on quality aircraft scales
1695# (34.64" CG) with oil and 5 gallons unusable fuel,
so about 1650 dry.

I haven't redone the W&B sheet yet, but in the course of installing my Garmin G5 I just pulled out the vacuum system aft of the firewall so there went 8 pounds. FWF (vacuum pump, regulator, air/oil separator & hoses) ought to be worth another 5 or so.

Halestorm wrote: My thoughts on this are simple; if your airplane calculated weight seems light, it most likely is, don't weigh it! Calculated weight is just as legal as actual weight, so unless you have some safety concerns about your airplane maybe being heavier than calculated, don't weigh it!.....

I would just as soon know the truth. The weight is not super important but the CG certainly is. if the weight is off enough to make a difference between legal and not, chances are the CG is incorrect also. I'd rather find out what's what on the scales in the hangar, than discover the hard way that the CG is in the danger zone.

hotrod180 wrote:

Halestorm wrote: My thoughts on this are simple; if your airplane calculated weight seems light, it most likely is, don't weigh it! Calculated weight is just as legal as actual weight, so unless you have some safety concerns about your airplane maybe being heavier than calculated, don't weigh it!.....

I would just as soon know the truth. The weight is not super important but the CG certainly is. if the weight is off enough to make a difference between legal and not, chances are the CG is incorrect also. I'd rather find out what's what on the scales in the hangar, than discover the hard way that the CG is in the danger zone.

These planes have a great CG range!!
At the forward edge empty and if I did my math right, 170lb pilot and 375lbs stacked in the baggage behind the rear passenger seats and we are still in CG!

hotrod180 wrote:

Halestorm wrote: My thoughts on this are simple; if your airplane calculated weight seems light, it most likely is, don't weigh it! Calculated weight is just as legal as actual weight, so unless you have some safety concerns about your airplane maybe being heavier than calculated, don't weigh it!.....

I would just as soon know the truth. The weight is not super important but the CG certainly is. if the weight is off enough to make a difference between legal and not, chances are the CG is incorrect also. I'd rather find out what's what on the scales in the hangar, than discover the hard way that the CG is in the danger zone.

I'm with hotrod180 on this one. I WANT to know what my plane weight is. I figure I owe that to the plane and any passengers I may have with me.

But then again I'm flying a lowly 170B,
Log...

Yeah, but...what if your empty CG was not forward, but aft?
This was the case with my last airplane (C150/150TD).
Heavy aft loading could conceivably take it out of the approved CG range.
And I suppose that with an otherwise light airplane with heavy engine & accessories, lightly loaded you could be out of CG range forward.
Either way, you need to know what your starting point is.
Even if you choose to fudge the paperwork, so you can "legally" fly over gross,
weigh the airplane & find out the weight & CG, for safety sake.

hotrod180 wrote:Yeah, but...what if your empty CG was not forward, but aft?
Heavy aft loading might then take it out of the approved CG range.
I suppose that with a heavy engine & accessories and the rest of the airplane light, you could have a loaded CG out of range forward.
Either way, you need to know what your starting point is..
Even if you choose to fudge the paperwork, so you can "legally" fly over gross,
weigh the airplane & find out the weight & CG, for safety sake.

With just me and fuel I am out forward. But this is 75% of my flying. So it is good to know. I keep a good first aid and tool kit in the extended baggage and then all is good. If I didn't weigh it I wouldn't have known.

Terry wrote:What is the deal with the gross weight increase in Alaska?
I thought I heard you could add 10% to your gross weight?

Plane is same in the lower 48 as it is in Alaska. FAA must have felt the Alaskan pilots are 10% better.
DENNY

I had my 1967 C180H on the scales a few months ago. It came in at 1726 lbs without the jump seats and 26 inch tires installed. It's a pretty stock machine with a firewall battery and an average weight IFR avionics stack. The factory weight and balance indicated that it was 1625lb out of the factory. I'm skeptical of the fact that it was 100 lbs lighter when it left Cessna, especially after switching batteries to save nearly 20 lbs.

DENNY wrote:

Terry wrote:What is the deal with the gross weight increase in Alaska?
I thought I heard you could add 10% to your gross weight?

Plane is same in the lower 48 as it is in Alaska. FAA must have felt the Alaskan pilots are 10% better.
DENNY

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/CFR-2 ... -sec91-323



Title 14 - Aeronautics and Space




Volume: 2

Date: 2012-01-01

Original Date: 2012-01-01

Title: Section 91.323 - Increased maximum certificated weights for certain airplanes operated in Alaska.

Context: Title 14 - Aeronautics and Space. CHAPTER I - FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (CONTINUED). SUBCHAPTER F - AIR TRAFFIC AND GENERAL OPERATING RULES. PART 91 - GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES. Subpart D - Special Flight Operations.



§ 91.323 Increased maximum certificated weights for certain airplanes operated in Alaska.
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the Federal Aviation Regulations, the Administrator will approve, as provided in this section, an increase in the maximum certificated weight of an airplane type certificated under Aeronautics Bulletin No. 7-A of the U.S. Department of Commerce dated January 1, 1931, as amended, or under the normal category of part 4a of the former Civil Air Regulations (14 CFR part 4a, 1964 ed.) if that airplane is operated in the State of Alaska by—

(1) A certificate holder conducting operations under part 121 or part 135 of this chapter; or

(2) The U.S. Department of Interior in conducting its game and fish law enforcement activities or its management, fire detection, and fire suppression activities concerning public lands.

(b) The maximum certificated weight approved under this section may not exceed—

(1) 12,500 pounds;

(2) 115 percent of the maximum weight listed in the FAA aircraft specifications;

(3) The weight at which the airplane meets the positive maneuvering load factor requirement for the normal category specified in § 23.337 of this chapter; or





(4) The weight at which the airplane meets the climb performance requirements under which it was type certificated.

(c) In determining the maximum certificated weight, the Administrator considers the structural soundness of the airplane and the terrain to be traversed.

(d) The maximum certificated weight determined under this section is added to the airplane's operation limitations and is identified as the maximum weight authorized for operations within the State of Alaska.
[Doc. No. 18334, 54 FR 34308, Aug. 18, 1989; Amdt. 91-211, 54 FR 41211, Oct. 5, 1989, as amended by Amdt. 91-253, 62 FR 13253, Mar. 19, 1997]

According to my AFM my A185F departed Wichita in 1974 weighing 1820.9lbs.
After a full strip and paint it was finally reweighed last year actual weight is now 1888lbs.
Very basic VFR, Sportsmans STOL, 8:50's and mud flaps, full leather seating for 6, MT prop, firewall battery, BAS belts and tail pull handles, JPI 830 and door stewards are the current mods.

Here's my old 180A for reference.

Utility interior, Sportsman STOL, 31" bushwheels, 88" prop, all seats (leather), double puck brakes, extended baggage, firewall battery, BAS harness and tail pull, basic panel with VOR, UBG-16, fuel flow, intercom.

On the scales @ 1681 lbs certified empty weight. (Switching to 8.00s and removing the rear seat knocked off about 55 lbs.)

1734 on 31's, WingX, Sportsman, Pponk, MT, Titanium gear, sling seat and more. It's accurate


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