As of lunch time today.. still no joy...

Wind has picked up BIG time.. almost 100MPH at 5 pm..

http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman ... ?stn=MCOBT

As of about 24 hours ago the CAP has decided it is their sandbox and no one else can play.....


This TFR is bigger then anyone I have EVER seen.. .

http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/html/ew/ ... 10_11.html

I know that country well, I grew up just north of there in MT, really rough time of year to be stuck out there.

Stol wrote:As of about 24 hours ago the CAP has decided it is their sandbox and no one else can play.....


This TFR is bigger then anyone I have EVER seen.. .

http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/html/ew/ ... 10_11.html

Kind of like saying you don't need to pack a gun for self defense.....just call the police.
If that was your family or friend out there would you give in to "let us handle it"?
Just stay at home, we will let you know the minute we find anything.
Bummer! I hope it all turns out well.

If CAP pulled that shit up here...well lets just say it wouldn't be pretty. What a crock.

Some of the most vacant airspace in the lower 48 now has a large TFR...probably just some unfortunate pointless bureaucratic checklist created because "...it seemed like such a good idea at the time..." to some bureaucrat at a desk somewhere. Completely unnecessary, perhaps...but when a bureaucratic machine is placed in motion, you end up getting more "help" than you want, 99% of the time.

These folks are out on their Thanksgiving away from their families giving their help. Let's give them our thanks and hope for good news.

Hoping for the best and praying for friends and family.

lesuther wrote:.......

These folks are out on their Thanksgiving away from their families giving their help. Let's give them our thanks and hope for good news.

Agreed.... The ground search teams are busting their butts looking.... As for the CAP,,, at one time I was a member, till they started killing CAP guys/gals here in Wyoming faster then rabbits can reproduce.. I bailed before they could kill me. There are a few GOOD guys /gals in it but the vast majority could NEVER pass a FAA medical, even if they could lose half their weight. They know I am critical of them and it is no coincidence they crafted such a large TFR so it encompasses my ranch. Kinda petty , really. Not like I am out anything as there is 15" of snow on my runway and I don't have skies for my plane.... I hope they can find the plane soon so the relatives can have some closure.... It is a sad deal to lose a fellow pilot.

Ps... They read this forum so,, Hi to the good members...

Stol wrote:As of about 24 hours ago the CAP has decided it is their sandbox and no one else can play.....


This TFR is bigger then anyone I have EVER seen.. .

http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/html/ew/ ... 10_11.html

When did this crap start??

Someone needs to contact their Congressional reps to stop the CAP from establishing TFRs for searches.

This will significantly restrict search capabilities, since CAP is almost always the least familiar with the country they're searching, and always the LEAST efficient search organization out there.

The locals are the pilots I want out there looking for my carcass, not these wanna-bes.

MTV

mtv wrote:
When did this crap start??

Someone needs to contact their Congressional reps to stop the CAP from establishing TFRs for searches.

This will significantly restrict search capabilities, since CAP is almost always the least familiar with the country they're searching, and always the LEAST efficient search organization out there.

The locals are the pilots I want out there looking for my carcass, not these wanna-bes.

MTV

I can understand the TFR to keep non- participating aircraft clear of the area but they really ought to be enlisting help from the local pilots, making them participating aircraft. An organization like this ought to be organizing. My two cents.

Like the absolute cluster f**k when they used KHTH as the base for the Steve Fossett search. I've never seen so many fake Colonels, Majors, and Captains in my life. All trying to out-important the other with fancier jumpsuits and more patches. It was comical.

But same thing. They shut down the airspace with a TFR. And did their best to keep the born and raised there SAR guys from being involved in any part of the search in the air or on the ground.

If I don't make it home from a local flight, my family knows which bunch of guys to call to go out looking for me.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:Like the absolute cluster f**k when they used KHTH as the base for the Steve Fossett search. I've never seen so many fake Colonels, Majors, and Captains in my life. All trying to out-important the other with fancier jumpsuits and more patches. It was comical.
Gump

The truth is so fucking funny..... Jumpsuits and badges..... Mexican Generals....

All those "10's" out there, makes us "9's" look pretty good

Don't worry Gump, I'll (we'll) find ya....

CamTom12 wrote:

mtv wrote:
When did this crap start??

Someone needs to contact their Congressional reps to stop the CAP from establishing TFRs for searches.

This will significantly restrict search capabilities, since CAP is almost always the least familiar with the country they're searching, and always the LEAST efficient search organization out there.

The locals are the pilots I want out there looking for my carcass, not these wanna-bes.

MTV

I can understand the TFR to keep non- participating aircraft clear of the area but they really ought to be enlisting help from the local pilots, making them participating aircraft. An organization like this ought to be organizing. My two cents.

The "colonels" don't want ANYone but their folks out there. Why none of those locals have had all that "training" in marching little kids around the Tarmac, installing "discipline" in those poor undisciplined young ones.

I've seen too many searches where the locals went out and found the missing aviator before the CAP even got their maps sorted out.

MTV

mtv wrote:

CamTom12 wrote:

mtv wrote:
When did this crap start??

Someone needs to contact their Congressional reps to stop the CAP from establishing TFRs for searches.

This will significantly restrict search capabilities, since CAP is almost always the least familiar with the country they're searching, and always the LEAST efficient search organization out there.

The locals are the pilots I want out there looking for my carcass, not these wanna-bes.

MTV

I can understand the TFR to keep non- participating aircraft clear of the area but they really ought to be enlisting help from the local pilots, making them participating aircraft. An organization like this ought to be organizing. My two cents.

The "colonels" don't want ANYone but their folks out there. Why none of those locals have had all that "training" in marching little kids around the Tarmac, installing "discipline" in those poor undisciplined young ones.

I've seen too many searches where the locals went out and found the missing aviator before the CAP even got their maps sorted out.

MTV

I think one of the reasons for the TFR is because maybe the CAP pilots don't care to keep an eye out for other aircraft flying in that area

I'm with you guys... I've yet to meet a Snivel Air Patrol guy that I'd want leading the charge to find me....give me good ol' locals anyday!
John

I think one of the reasons for the TFR is because maybe the CAP pilots don't care to keep an eye out for other aircraft flying in that area [/quote]

I think everyone understands what the CAP WANTS. My point is, I'd much sooner have the locals out looking for me.

And, yes, I HAVE seen the CAP incompetence hard at work on several searches,one of which was searching for me. Don't EVER send those folks out looking for me again.

MTV

Montana's system for aircraft SAR is the best one if seen, in my limited exposure. The state trains local volunteer pilots at a seminar put on every year. As a result, there are trained local pilots and observers all over the state; searches are coordinated by the aeronautics division. They are in the air pretty quick once notice is given. Pilots/observers are assigned boxes within a grid system to search thus avoiding conflicts with other SAR aircraft.

I'm sure this system isn't perfect, what is? However, I very much agree with the above posts, I'd much rather have local pilots (you guys) searching for me than the idiotic over stuffed bureaucratic monster called CAP. This comment isn't direct at their volunteers, but at the ridiculous system they operate within.

Mike

I don't think it's fair to paint all CAP volunteers with the same brush. I know a number of the CAP folk from this area, for instance, and the ones I know are all good folk, good pilots, well acquainted with our local area. I have no doubt that there are incompetent military wannabees in some CAP squadrons, and CAP pilots who really shouldn't be involved in any search. Whether that's true of the Wyoming CAPers involved in this particular situation, I can't say.

However, I totally agree that failing to take advantage of local knowledge is a mistake. Giving experienced pilots some quick training in grid searching and encouraging them to get out there couldn't hurt and might help a lot. The more eyes looking, the more likely someone will see--kinda basic. But I wouldn't want inexperienced pilots up there, adding to the risk.

Cary

The only fuckin way you ever find a lost plane or person is looking outside the box!!!!!
If the were in the box they would not be lost!!
I agree with the guys who have had the good experience of being around these CAP assholes!
A bunch of retired AH's who think they are god's gift and you better get out of the way!!
Last one I saw parked his brand new 182 on a bit of a pant after fueling up and then was very upset when I made him get off the couch and go move the dam thing as fuel was running on the pavement.
They would keep the key to the only crew car when they went on there mission, so as to male sure they could go to lunch when they got back, screw everyone else who might need it!
Just there attitude!!
Rant over!
My thought to the family and friends of the folks in the bird,
GT

58skylane wrote:I think one of the reasons for the TFR is because maybe the CAP pilots don't care to keep an eye out for other aircraft flying in that area

MTV wrote:I think everyone understands what the CAP WANTS. My point is, I'd much sooner have the locals out looking for me.

And, yes, I HAVE seen the CAP incompetence hard at work on several searches,one of which was searching for me. Don't EVER send those folks out looking for me again.

MTV

I'm with you 100% Mike. I meant for the "shame on you" smiley directed at the CAPs or whoever put up the TFR.