Hello All,

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my engine. I could spend nearly 30k+ for the pponk engine or I could field overhaul the engine for roughly 15k and put the money saved into a sportsman stol kit, wing extensions, and larger tires. Any comments would be appreciated.

If I could spend the same amount and have 3 or 4 mods instead of one, I'd get the 3 or 4.

A1Skinner wrote:If I could spend the same amount and have 3 or 4 mods instead of one, I'd get the 3 or 4.

That's what I was thinking too, but I thought I'd get some forum opinions before I make my decision.

TxKiger wrote:Hello All,

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my engine. I could spend nearly 30k+ for the pponk engine or I could field overhaul the engine for roughly 15k and put the money saved into a sportsman stol kit, wing extensions, and larger tires. Any comments would be appreciated.

Count on at least $40k firewall forward for the Pponk.

Glidergeek wrote:

TxKiger wrote:Hello All,

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my engine. I could spend nearly 30k+ for the pponk engine or I could field overhaul the engine for roughly 15k and put the money saved into a sportsman stol kit, wing extensions, and larger tires. Any comments would be appreciated.

Count on at least $40k firewall forward for the Pponk.

Outstanding! Increase to 5-6 mods.

You better do your math again and get a real quote. If you throw away all the components of your firewall forward you currently have its $40k I suppose. Depends on what you have.

Its probably still well under 5k increase in producing the engine from a good eligible core. It sounds like your engine is ready rebuild anyway- so case machining/cylinder up charge and steve's paperwork/carb work is the charge over 470. Pretty simple/cheap. (and worst case you have to buy a crank if you have a R model or other non eligible crank)
The real cost is a guy usually wants to put a good prop on to utilize all the extra hp. Good props cost. Maybe get a cheaper one to start.

I'd do the Pponk first without question. The other mods aren't really comparable to that much horsepower. Find someone who wishes they had a smaller engine and I imagine you'll find a liar.

Good luck either way. Just get real #'s. Its hard to justify building a std O470 now a days.

You may also want to consider moGas burning abilities. For that reason alone I would go with a stock 470 over the Pponk. Call me a liar, but I'd rather have the ability to burn moGas and afford to fly then have to burn avgas and not be able to afford to fly...

After several years of flying 182's behind both engines I would go Pponk first. The power difference is incredible.

Adding SPORTMAN STOL will be like adding 20 more HP. -P.Link motor (with prop ) will set you back $$$. I would look at Norland 260 HP up grade . With Kinsley exhaust add 10-15 HP .

If it was me, I'd rebuild the O-470 that you have and get the sportsman and wing-x. You'll increase your useful load by 300-400lbs depending on what year your straight tail is. It will also increase your rate of climb and takeoff performance, as well as slow flight capability.

Either motor you go with just be sure that it's built by a very reputable shop and ideally run/broke in on a test stand before you install. Custom Airmotive is great, as well as LyCon and Pponk. The money you save on a "bargain" overhaul can really cost you a lot more time/money/headaches down the road, new cylinders etc are the only way to go IMO. I've been down that road a few times and the old saying "pay now or pay later, usually costs a lot more later" really applies to aircraft engines. Also on the cylinders, chrome or nickel, never know when you or the plane might get grounded unexpectedly, steel rusts.

182 STOL driver wrote:Adding SPORTMAN STOL will be like adding 20 more HP. -P.Link motor (with prop ) will set you back $$$. I would look at Norland 260 HP up grade . With Kinsley exhaust add 10-15 HP .

I am unfamiliar with this "Kinsley Exhaust", what does it do?

Go with the pponk if you want one as it will never be as inexpensive to do it as now. For most of us if we keep a plane we are fortunately only going to need an overhaul every 15 or 20 years. If you overhaul your engine now as a 470 then it becomes much more expensive to convert to a pponk in 5 years when you decide you just have to have a pponk. Unlike the engine none of the other mods mentioned have an additional cost if you wait and then decide to do them in 3 or 5 years. I have had a 69 180 project four years I'm hoping to get to this summer. It came with an O470R I would consider a core engine only as I am unsure of the quality of the prop strike inspection that was done on it and the cylinders were overhauled in 1973, 1000 hours ago. I think about this question every couple of days. A local engine shop with an excellent reputation which has done pponk conversions for friends of mine told me to overhaul my engine as a 470R with new cylinders would be 17 to 19 thousand, I have yet to ask him about a pponk. I have a 88 inch 203 prop with 240 hours and a fresh corrosion inspection which I would have to replace with a 14 thousand dollar prop and spinner for a net increase of about 7 to 8 thousand, and since I need a different crank for the R engine that would add another 5 to 7 thousand. This 180 will have the Kenmore 3190 gross weight STC so the extra power of the pponk would be nice if heavy or when on skis. To put that in perspective though most of the time I would be operating at around 2600 pounds rather than the full 3190 and since we are at 1300 ft elevation density altitude is not the same factor as if in the mountain west. I do not plan to install a STOL kit as I feel even with a pponk I can still land shorter than I can take off. I will have 8.50 mains and if the tail wheel tears up my strip to much when soft may try a baby bush wheel on the back. Looking at your avatar showing wheel pants you should consider at least a 6.00 on the nose and 8.00 on the mains even if you do a pponk. As one last consideration both the pponk and Norland conversions only have obsolete 2 blade inexpensive props approved, all of the other approved props add considerably to the cost of conversion. That may not be a problem today but what about in 5 or 10 years at prop overhaul, so a big part of either conversion is the cost of a prop. I still don't know what I'll do but I sure would like to have a pponk, nothing makes up for horse power, horse power is king.

Tim

Halestorm wrote:

182 STOL driver wrote:Adding SPORTMAN STOL will be like adding 20 more HP. -P.Link motor (with prop ) will set you back $$$. I would look at Norland 260 HP up grade . With Kinsley exhaust add 10-15 HP .

I am unfamiliar with this "Kinsley Exhaust", what does it do?

Knisley
It's factory exhaust with a little different cluster. It should flow a little better ? but all the tubes still dump into the garbage can and flow different lengths so i have a hard time believing 10-15 but hopefully I'm wrong cause I own a set.

Basically stock exhaust but real nice craftsmanship.
They claim some hp increase. Danes leading edge would be the way to go but $$ late model...

Keep in mind that the cost of a lot of extra horses often exceeds the benefits. Although there are those who claim that their fire-breathing higher horsepower conversions make them go the speed of light, realistically you can push a Cessna airframe only so fast. Even P. Ponk doesn't make that claim--only 12-14 knots increase with an extra 35-45 hp, and I'd bet not a lot of purchasers actually get that. For most uses, that's insignificant, shaving off only 12 minutes in a typical 300 mile trip, less than 45 minutes in a 1000 mile trip. The big benefit will be in climb rate--in the type of flying you do, is that necessary?

There's no free lunch--that extra power comes at a cost--more gas, conceivably more stress on the engine, which is basically still an O-470. If you read P. Ponk's second service letter, that's obvious. This isn't any indictment of P.Ponk, but there's only a 6 month/240 hour limit to the warranty.

If it were me, and if the performance of my stock airplane was totally adequate for my purposes, I'd have the overhaul done by a local trusted engine shop and use the savings to fly. A $15,000 savings will buy a lot of avgas (or mogas).

Caveat: I spend every bit as much money that others would think is foolish to spend on my airplane, money that could go into avgas. Also, although I have plenty of time in 182s, I'm flying a hotrod P172D with a 180hp conversion. So take everything I just said with a grain of salt.

Cary

I'm a fan of the wing mods. But, one thing to consider on the wing extensions is: Do you park it in a T-Hangar? If so, what's the width of the door?

I ran a 206 with wing extensions for one winter kept in a T-Hangar with a (I think) 44 foot door. That is a recipe for taking the strobes off the tips....regularly. Your mechanic will stop answering your phone calls.

Otherwise, I'd go with the wing mods. Power is great. But, slow approach and climb are both VERY useful tools in the backcountry.

So is power of course, but.....

MTV

Thanks for all the input, it's made me go back and forth on my decision multiple times . The 30k for the Ponk does not include the cost of a approved prop... MTV my hangar is only 42 feet wide so I'd build another hangar if I decide to put on the wingx. Fortunately I live on the airport and I'm handy with a hammer so the cost of building a hangar would be minimal compared to hiring it done. Also the engine in question hasn't had any problems. I'm nearing the 1,900 hour mark and the compressions and oil consumption is still good. I know this opens up another can of worms of when to pull the trigger on starting the overhaul. The last overhaul was done in 1968 and the model is an o470L.

Several pponk 180s and a 182 here. Every one has had cylinder problems around 800 or less.

Well, we all know what free internet advice is worth... But here's mine.

Pponk it! The Pponk engine upgrade was hands down the most noticeable mod I did to my 180. Small tires to 31" bushwheels could be argued as just as noticeable but I'm guessing you won't be going that large on tires.

Besides making the aircraft noticeably more powerful the Pponk -50 is a well built smooth running engine with a higher TBO and great support in my experience. I have over 700hrs on mine and all compressions in the 70s, have had no major issues. YMMV.

I run it at 22-23 squared usually. It burns right about 14gph and is ~5-10kts faster than 4 other stock engine 180s I fly with. They also burn around 14gph.

Sportsman STOL is also a very noticeable mod, Wing X less so. Don't get me wrong, I love my wing extensions but of the three I would (and did) do them last. At least on a wheel plane.

If I was in your shoes I would Pponk, enjoy the hell out of it, and in the future add a sportsman stol and as large of tires as your mission dictates. Won't cost much to upgrade to 8.00s or 8.50s.

TxKiger wrote: I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my engine. I could spend nearly 30k+ for the pponk engine or I could field overhaul the engine for roughly 15k and put the money saved into a sportsman stol kit, wing extensions, and larger tires. Any comments would be appreciated.

I'm surprised that no one has asked what your mission statement is. What are you trying to make the airplane capable of-- more speed, shorter takeoff and landing, carrying more load? Or maybe all of the above?