I had a Harris L3 Lynx 9000D+ installed. D for diversity, + for active traffic. I like the active traffic feature. It picks up mode A and C transponders in addition to those who are ADS-B.
Two surprises: There are a lot more airplanes out there than I thought equipped or not. I’m surprised how many in Canada are ADS-B equipped already when we don’t yet have a rule.
I recommend the TAS function. There are always going to be many who refuse to adopt ADS-B. There are very few who don’t at least have a mode C. Fewer still who have mode A or none at all. You may not see me, but you’re not going to get that close when I see you first.
ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not have?
Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:16 pm
Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:22 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Pinecone wrote:I had a Harris L3 Lynx 9000D+ installed. D for diversity, + for active traffic. I like the active traffic feature. It picks up mode A and C transponders in addition to those who are ADS-B.
Two surprises: There are a lot more airplanes out there than I thought equipped or not. I’m surprised how many in Canada are ADS-B equipped already when we don’t yet have a rule.
I recommend the TAS function. There are always going to be many who refuse to adopt ADS-B. There are very few who don’t at least have a mode C. Fewer still who have mode A or none at all. You may not see me, but you’re not going to get that close when I see you first.
Canadians love them some “safety”
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Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:37 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Pinecone wrote:
I recommend the TAS function. There are always going to be many who refuse to adopt ADS-B. There are very few who don’t at least have a mode C. Fewer still who have mode A or none at all. You may not see me, but you’re not going to get that close when I see you first.
That makes me curious how many who don't have ADSB run their transponders when they're not in airspace that requires it or when they're not utilizing flight tracking. I don't. Can't really tell you why - maybe I should - but I don't. Most of my flying is outside the range of any usefulness of transponders, so I just got out of the habit.
Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:18 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Or we are just to busy flying to be paranoid...NineThreeKilo wrote:Pinecone wrote:I had a Harris L3 Lynx 9000D+ installed. D for diversity, + for active traffic. I like the active traffic feature. It picks up mode A and C transponders in addition to those who are ADS-B.
Two surprises: There are a lot more airplanes out there than I thought equipped or not. I’m surprised how many in Canada are ADS-B equipped already when we don’t yet have a rule.
I recommend the TAS function. There are always going to be many who refuse to adopt ADS-B. There are very few who don’t at least have a mode C. Fewer still who have mode A or none at all. You may not see me, but you’re not going to get that close when I see you first.
Canadians love them some “safety”
Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:55 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
My short answer is get it. I hate the government mandate, but I know of 2-3 occurrences I’ve had since I’ve gotten it that most likely saved me from a mid-air. It’s not a replacement for eyes out and head on a swivel, but it is a SA increasing tool. Like any tool, there is a time and a place to emphasize its use. For me, it’s akin to having TCAS at work.
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Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:05 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
What's a transponder?Brian M wrote:That makes me curious how many who don't have ADSB run their transponders when they're not in airspace that requires it or when they're not utilizing flight tracking...
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Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:11 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Barnstormer wrote: What's a transponder?
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:10 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
I find it fascinating how many people now claim that ADS-B has saved them from a mid air. Especially considering the short period of time ADS-B has been even relatively common.
That's amazing to me, since over the 50 plus years I've been flying, and based on the accident databases, mid air collisions are in fact extremely rare. And, we're flying quite a bit less now than we did back in the seventies, etc.
I just don't buy that mid airs or even near mid airs have become so much more common suddenly.
MTV
That's amazing to me, since over the 50 plus years I've been flying, and based on the accident databases, mid air collisions are in fact extremely rare. And, we're flying quite a bit less now than we did back in the seventies, etc.
I just don't buy that mid airs or even near mid airs have become so much more common suddenly.
MTV
Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:59 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
mtv wrote:I find it fascinating how many people now claim that ADS-B has saved them from a mid air. Especially considering the short period of time ADS-B has been even relatively common.
That's amazing to me, since over the 50 plus years I've been flying, and based on the accident databases, mid air collisions are in fact extremely rare. And, we're flying quite a bit less now than we did back in the seventies, etc.
I just don't buy that mid airs or even near mid airs have become so much more common suddenly.
MTV
Agreed
I’d say it easily flustered or tightly wound people who couldn’t spot a plane till they took a look at their ADSB “he was right there!” Which morphs to “why couldn’t I see him” which ends up with “if it wasn’t for ADSB I would have been in a midair”
Kinda like some of the drone and laser mellow drama, yeah it’s a thing, no it’s not nearly as bad as the loudest of the people say it is.
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Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:26 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
mtv wrote:I find it fascinating how many people now claim that ADS-B has saved them from a mid air.
I just don't buy that mid airs or even near mid airs have become so much more common suddenly.
MTV
I don't think anyone has claimed that it this thread. The closest to that I've read is that ADS-B "likely" prevented a midair. Maybe you've been blessed by not having a really close encounter or two--close enough that it truly was a coin flip. I've only been at it for 33 years, but I've had moments of brick-$hitting terror, and they came out of the big, blue sky, while I was on the radio and looking out the windscreen, from places I couldn't see and folks who either weren't talking, weren't listening, or weren't on the same frequency. Those are the ones I actually was aware of. It took me a while, but I also learned that I'm not perfect. I have been the guy in the pattern who forgot to change from .9 over to the local CTAF before landing when there were other airplanes in the air and on the ground, wondering why those idiots weren't announcing their position and intentions.
Yes, the odds of a midair are low, and shouldn't have changed over the years, but it's not even bottom of the list:
The Top 10 Leading Causes of Fatal General Aviation Accidents 2001-2016:
1. Loss of Control Inflight
2. Controlled Flight Into Terrain
3. System Component Failure – Powerplant
4. Fuel Related
5. Unknown or Undetermined
6. System Component Failure – Non-Powerplant
7. Unintended Flight In IMC
8. Midair Collisions
9. Low-Altitude Operations
10. Other
https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=21274
Just because a risk is low probability doesn't mean that it's not worth worrying about when the downside is very likely death. Small things can add up. Heck, a midair was what drove Alan Klapmeier to build a plane with a parachute. Personally, I find it hard to watch a youtube video of a midair and tell myself it wouldn't have mattered if both aircraft were equipped with ADS-B In/Out. If you're on the fence, maybe it's time to watch some of those videos, or to reread Fate is the Hunter.
CAVU
Last edited by CAVU on Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:52 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
I get what you’re saying, but I can only speak to my experience. I don’t think so much that they are more common, but I do think we are now more aware of how much traffic we previously just never saw or knew was even there that was a potential threat.mtv wrote:I find it fascinating how many people now claim that ADS-B has saved them from a mid air. Especially considering the short period of time ADS-B has been even relatively common.
That's amazing to me, since over the 50 plus years I've been flying, and based on the accident databases, mid air collisions are in fact extremely rare. And, we're flying quite a bit less now than we did back in the seventies, etc.
I just don't buy that mid airs or even near mid airs have become so much more common suddenly.
MTV
Took off from an a rural, not busy airport that I frequent to see family. A busy airfield about 30 miles south has a university with a flight program. Always busy on the shared frequency. Noticed on climb out that stratus has disconnected from my iPad. (My old iPad at the time was having issues running FF and a link to stratus at the same time). I momentarily had the thought that I’d shrug it off. After all, I’m eyes outside and looking. Then I thought, “Naw, I’d probably better link it to my phone and see who is in the neighborhood.” Took only a second. At that same time I hear a college flight school plane on the rnav approach, descending and his target appeared on my phone. A low wing directly above me at 500’, same track, descending while I’m climbing. I quickly bank and sure enough, there he was. No doubt in my mind that we would have struck each other and neither would have seen each other as we were both in each other’s blind spot.
Second occurrence. Leaving Boulder down by Vegas. Busy airspace, busy freq. Slowly climbing out, head on a swivel, position reports, etc. See this 210 on FF barreling in, not on freq…or at least not talking, head on, very hard to see, same altitude. Because I knew he was there because of ADSB, I course corrected when it was apparent he wasn’t. Didn’t pick him up visually until he slid off my side, having never changed course or talked on the radio.
Personally, I find the debate on this kind of silly. Yes people have too much a tendency to burry their heads in gadgets in the plane. But this is no more a distraction than phones, new avionics, and a whole slew of other things that can distract. ADSB is just another SA tool that, when used properly, should be a safety boost.
I remember the first time I flew with TCAS when flying smoke jumpers around McCall, Idaho. I realized that day that, despite my best efforts to see and avoid, there was a lot of traffic I was missing and never new was there. ADSB has had that same effect.
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Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:48 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Can we get a thread on Whee's 31" bushwheels, which are clearly more interesting and fun than ADBS. If I had only the money for one, I would have gone the same way.
I reckon 31's probably make his flying safer too, more so than ADSB would have!
I reckon 31's probably make his flying safer too, more so than ADSB would have!
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:25 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Flew in somewhat smokey conditions today for a short CC flight, would have been very tough to spot a nearby plane. Luckily there were none in my path on a quiet Friday afternoon.
Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:18 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Having ADS-B in and out plus TAS has made me aware of how frequently the big sky factor saved my butt. Mid air collisions truly are a lottery. Chances are very slim, but this equipment makes it less likely for my number to come up.
Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:08 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Yeah I flew today too. So did everyone else and their dog since the weather finally moved out. The smoke, however, didn’t. Probably 10 miles average but really hard to make planes out. I wish I would have taken a screen shot of the gauntlet I ran. Probably close to a dozen aircraft, mostly from flight schools, that I had to navigate around in the first 20 miles of the flight. 2-4 miles away and couldn’t make them out. Nice knowing where most of the other pieces of metal in the sky were. Most of that 20 mile range was in airspace requiring it.Utah-Jay wrote:Flew in somewhat smokey conditions today for a short CC flight, would have been very tough to spot a nearby plane. Luckily there were none in my path on a quiet Friday afternoon.
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Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:26 pm
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Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:42 pm
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
Okay, for the record, I have ADS-B In and Out installed in my airplane. For the most part, I could care less about the security/personal information "issues" associated with the system. Don't like it, mind you, but frankly, that's the FAA's fault for making this information public.
My primary nav instrument is a Garmin 660. I also subscribe to Foreflight (as a member of SAFE, I get a great discount), and that runs on my phone and/or iPad. So far, I have not yet figured a place/method to view either of those without severely impairing my view outside, or requiring me to stare at my knee. Maybe it's an age thing, but my eyes don't accommodate quickly from two feet away to infinity. And, if you talk to an eye specialist, they'll tell you that your eyes probably don't accommodate back and forth as fast as you may think either.
So, a full on panel rebuild could afford a massive multifunction display in mid panel, but that just isn't going to happen. My panel is what it is, and I'm not shoving more $$ into that hole.
And, my point in this entire thread has not been AGAINST ADS-B, but rather against pilots spending a lot of time staring inside the airplane, as opposed to outside.
I totally realize that with ADS-B In, I become aware of a LOT more airplanes than I will by looking out the window. That said, unless they are a threat or traffic (kinda the same thing), I don't NEED to see them....they are probably not relevant to my well being, nor do I care if there are a hundred airplanes out there. If the fact that you can "see" all the airplanes withing thirty miles of you gives you a warm fuzzy, I'm good with that......
AS LONG AS you still maintain a diligent outside scan. Cause that's what I'm doing.
Mid airs happen. I know a couple of folks who've been there. That said, they are rare. If you truly feel that ADS-B makes you safer because of it, more power to you. Hopefully, you'll see my "Out" transmission, and avoid me.
Cause, mostly, I'll be looking out the window. No offense, but I sincerely hope I don't see you while we're both flying.....
MTV
My primary nav instrument is a Garmin 660. I also subscribe to Foreflight (as a member of SAFE, I get a great discount), and that runs on my phone and/or iPad. So far, I have not yet figured a place/method to view either of those without severely impairing my view outside, or requiring me to stare at my knee. Maybe it's an age thing, but my eyes don't accommodate quickly from two feet away to infinity. And, if you talk to an eye specialist, they'll tell you that your eyes probably don't accommodate back and forth as fast as you may think either.
So, a full on panel rebuild could afford a massive multifunction display in mid panel, but that just isn't going to happen. My panel is what it is, and I'm not shoving more $$ into that hole.
And, my point in this entire thread has not been AGAINST ADS-B, but rather against pilots spending a lot of time staring inside the airplane, as opposed to outside.
I totally realize that with ADS-B In, I become aware of a LOT more airplanes than I will by looking out the window. That said, unless they are a threat or traffic (kinda the same thing), I don't NEED to see them....they are probably not relevant to my well being, nor do I care if there are a hundred airplanes out there. If the fact that you can "see" all the airplanes withing thirty miles of you gives you a warm fuzzy, I'm good with that......
AS LONG AS you still maintain a diligent outside scan. Cause that's what I'm doing.
Mid airs happen. I know a couple of folks who've been there. That said, they are rare. If you truly feel that ADS-B makes you safer because of it, more power to you. Hopefully, you'll see my "Out" transmission, and avoid me.
Cause, mostly, I'll be looking out the window. No offense, but I sincerely hope I don't see you while we're both flying.....
MTV
Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:24 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
mtv wrote:For the most part, I could care less about the security/personal information "issues" associated with the system.
After seeing this I stopped and couldn't read any more of your post. Got it - you have no problem giving up your freedom.
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:35 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
C180_guy wrote:mtv wrote:For the most part, I could care less about the security/personal information "issues" associated with the system.
After seeing this I stopped and couldn't read any more of your post. Got it - you have no problem giving up your freedom.
Now, that’s funny right there! A guy who lives in the Communist State of California is worried about “The Gubmint”?
Good one!
MTV
Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:47 am
Re: ADSB: Don't Need it, don't want it but unsafe to not hav
mtv wrote:Now, that’s funny right there! A guy who lives in the Communist State of California is worried about “The Gubmint”?
Good one!
MTV
Not just the gummit - it is no one else's business where I have flown the last 6 months. Regarding kalicommiemexafornia - we would love to move. If you know of any airpark property for sale (outside of AD-BS airspace), please let us know. We have been looking and there is not much out there. By the way, checked out your neck of the woods and prices have exploded in MT. Priced us out.
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