CAVU wrote:NBAA administers the Limited Aircraft Data Display registry program. It doesn't block the goverment from seeing your data. It doesn't block Joe Schmoe's ADS-B recever from getting your Mode S (which can be tied to the FAA registration database). But it does prohibit flight tracking services like Flightaware and Flightradar24 from tagging your data and providing flight history. Only your aircraft type shows up on the screen.

Other than privacy and the order of magnitude increase in enforcement capability (see Martha Lunken's story), the same kind of arguments against ADS-B (over-dependence on the equipment, distraction, expense etc.) can be made against radios, flight following, and charts. It's a tool. A really powerful tool. Think about those tragic midairs that have been discussed here the last few years, at places and events a lot of us like to go to. They never should have happened, but they did. Even deep in a canyon or out in the desert, far from the nearest ground station, ADS-B ship-to-ship would have provided warnings and superior SA.

Just the other day, I had a target screaming up right at me at my 6:00 going 250 kts. We weren't on the same frequency, and he was either not aware of us or trying to intercept and scare the $hit out of us, so I took evasive action and he blew on by.

My family was with me. Before you decide not to equip with ADS-B, you might ask your wife and kids if they'd feel better about getting in the airplane with ADS-B. And, btw, Foreflight has a free "passenger" app that allows them to see the same display that's on your iPad. They are already looking real hard out the window for traffic. This helps them spot it.

My $.02

So you believe you would have died without ADSB?

Also NBAA, straight pandering, you’re still transmitting the same data, and the real bad actors, the ones who cause trouble, will go to one of the sites that doesn’t filter, or build a $50 Pi box.
That “block” is just feel good BS, if NBAA and AOPA were anything beyond the NRA of aviation they would have used all that money they collect to fight the ADSB mandate.



My family remembers the “patriot act”, covid anti-constitution acts, and all the tons of abuses from government and rise of the karens, we also somehow survived just fine for all the years before ADSB, plus we do math, and the numbers on midairs are crazy low, always have been, the threat of a Karen calling in frivolous complaints, or guilty till proven innocent by a jury of your prosecutors [FAA], I’d prefer not to transmit my personal info when not absolutely necessary.


There is a huge difference between a always on tracker sending personal info via ADSB, and a paper map or a radio.

How telling, the same government marketing that you have nothing to worry about sending your n number, linked to your address, for some reason wants to not to that same thing on public owned planes, why do the politicians and government workers who mandate you have transmit ADSB, exempt themselves from having to transmit the same information they want you to transmit?




“Hey chef, these oysters seem a little off”

“Oh no, they are fine, enjoy your meal”

“Could you eat one and give my your opinion”

“Uhhhh, I got to go”

NineThreeKilo wrote:
So you believe you would have died without ADSB?

I doubt we would have. How do you know we wouldn't?

NineThreeKilo wrote:

CAVU wrote:
Also NBAA, straight pandering, you’re still transmitting the same data, and the real bad actors, the ones who cause trouble, will go to one of the sites that doesn’t filter, or build a $50 Pi box.
That “block” is just feel good BS, if NBAA and AOPA were anything beyond the NRA of aviation they would have used all that money they collect to fight the ADSB mandate.

My family remembers the “patriot act”, covid anti-constitution acts, and all the tons of abuses from government and rise of the karens, we also somehow survived just fine for all the years before ADSB, plus we do math, and the numbers on midairs are crazy low, always have been, the threat of a Karen calling in frivolous complaints, or guilty till proven innocent by a jury of your prosecutors [FAA], I’d prefer not to transmit my personal info when not absolutely necessary.

There is a huge difference between a always on tracker sending personal info via ADSB, and a paper map or a radio.

How telling, the same government marketing that you have nothing to worry about sending your n number, linked to your address, for some reason wants to not to that same thing on public owned planes, why do the politicians and government workers who mandate you have transmit ADSB, exempt themselves from having to transmit the same information they want you to transmit?

My point about charts, etc. is that aside from the privacy concerns they present as much potential for distraction and misuse as another screen in the cockpit. That probably sounds like "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln," to you. I had no choice but to equip, and, now that I've flown with it for a while, I have to acknowledge that there really are significant benefits. I see WAY more traffic using a combination of my eyes, ears, and ADS-B than I ever spotted with just eyes and ears. It's also much easier to check METARs and TAFs in flight than it was before and that helps with contingency planning on long trips. Those benefits are immediate and concrete, while my concerns about the ever-encroaching nanny state and the potential for stalking are more general.

The casual stalking enabled by Flightaware and Flightradar24 is annoying enough that I did the LADD deal a few years back (when it was still called BARR). I don't think I'm interesting enough to be a target of a real bad actor who would go to the trouble of stalking me with a homebuilt ADS-B receiver system. On the enforcement end, ADS-B has suddenly made a bunch of overreaching and unrealistic (IMHO) regulations much more enforceable. We need to continue the fight against these kinds of regulations, and take advantage of any opportunity that comes along for rolling the existing ones back.

The local Sheriff and highway patrol aircraft all show up on Flightradar24. I see a lot of "XXXHP" tail numbers. Sometimes, there are anonymous tail numbers, but who else is doing donuts for 2 hours over the 'hood or following the interstate at 90 knots on a clear night? I think that military aircraft are either completely blocked or exempt from the equipment requirement.

Bottom line is that there are real benefits along with the downsides. Of course I wish the downsides weren't there.

YMMV


CAVU

CAVU wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:
So you believe you would have died without ADSB?

I doubt we would have. How do you know we wouldn't?

NineThreeKilo wrote:

CAVU wrote:
Also NBAA, straight pandering, you’re still transmitting the same data, and the real bad actors, the ones who cause trouble, will go to one of the sites that doesn’t filter, or build a $50 Pi box.
That “block” is just feel good BS, if NBAA and AOPA were anything beyond the NRA of aviation they would have used all that money they collect to fight the ADSB mandate.

My family remembers the “patriot act”, covid anti-constitution acts, and all the tons of abuses from government and rise of the karens, we also somehow survived just fine for all the years before ADSB, plus we do math, and the numbers on midairs are crazy low, always have been, the threat of a Karen calling in frivolous complaints, or guilty till proven innocent by a jury of your prosecutors [FAA], I’d prefer not to transmit my personal info when not absolutely necessary.

There is a huge difference between a always on tracker sending personal info via ADSB, and a paper map or a radio.

How telling, the same government marketing that you have nothing to worry about sending your n number, linked to your address, for some reason wants to not to that same thing on public owned planes, why do the politicians and government workers who mandate you have transmit ADSB, exempt themselves from having to transmit the same information they want you to transmit?

My point about charts, etc. is that aside from the privacy concerns they present as much potential for distraction and misuse as another screen in the cockpit. That probably sounds like "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln," to you. I had no choice but to equip, and, now that I've flown with it for a while, I have to acknowledge that there really are significant benefits. I see WAY more traffic using a combination of my eyes, ears, and ADS-B than I ever spotted with just eyes and ears. It's also much easier to check METARs and TAFs in flight than it was before and that helps with contingency planning on long trips. Those benefits are immediate and concrete, while my concerns about the ever-encroaching nanny state and the potential for stalking are more general.

The casual stalking enabled by Flightaware and Flightradar24 is annoying enough that I did the LADD deal a few years back (when it was still called BARR). I don't think I'm interesting enough to be a target of a real bad actor who would go to the trouble of stalking me with a homebuilt ADS-B receiver system. On the enforcement end, ADS-B has suddenly made a bunch of overreaching and unrealistic (IMHO) regulations much more enforceable. We need to continue the fight against these kinds of regulations, and take advantage of any opportunity that comes along for rolling the existing ones back.

The local Sheriff and highway patrol aircraft all show up on Flightradar24. I see a lot of "XXXHP" tail numbers. Sometimes, there are anonymous tail numbers, but who else is doing donuts for 2 hours over the 'hood or following the interstate at 90 knots on a clear night? I think that military aircraft are either completely blocked or exempt from the equipment requirement.

Bottom line is that there are real benefits along with the downsides. Of course I wish the downsides weren't there.

YMMV


CAVU

So one managed to get all those hours and not get in a mid air, but that one time after the ADSB mandate ADSB saved their bacon? Possible, sure. Probable, not so much.


Having had frivolous BS and paid a lawyer for gov overreach, I have more faith in the big sky than big gov

NineThreeKilo wrote:.... My family remembers the “patriot act”, covid anti-constitution acts, and all the tons of abuses from government and rise of the karens, we also somehow survived just fine for all the years before ADSB, plus we do math, and the numbers on midairs are crazy low, always have been, the threat of a Karen calling in frivolous complaints.....

1) who's this Karen you're talking about?

2) I think ADSB is kinda like the Covid vaccine-- you're either fer it or agin it,
and nothing anyone else sez is gonna change your mind.
So either get it, or don't.

I didn't really want ADSB, but it's impractical to fly where I do without it, so I got it.
Got ADSB in too, not too sold on that either--
for a lot of the same reasons MTV has pointed out.
But I'm not gonna waste a lot of bandwidth here bitching about it.

hotrod180 wrote:

NineThreeKilo wrote:.... My family remembers the “patriot act”, covid anti-constitution acts, and all the tons of abuses from government and rise of the karens, we also somehow survived just fine for all the years before ADSB, plus we do math, and the numbers on midairs are crazy low, always have been, the threat of a Karen calling in frivolous complaints.....

1) who's this Karen you're talking about?

2) I think ADSB is kinda like the Covid vaccine-- you're either fer it or agin it,
and nothing anyone else sez is gonna change your mind.
So either get it, or don't.

I didn't really want ADSB, but it's impractical to fly where I do without it, so I got it.
Got ADSB in too, not too sold on that either--
for a lot of the same reasons MTV has pointed out.
But I'm not gonna waste a lot of bandwidth here bitching about it.

1) really? Where have you been this last year lol
*Busybodies

2) depends on the IQ, most things are not linear, I’m for ADSB I’m just for not sending my personal info out when not required, need to know and all that, sending that personal into gives zero to “safety”

Same with covid shots, and all medical procedures, not a 1 or a 0, somethings that make sense for one patient, might not make sense for another patient, thankfully in a free country we can make these choices for ourselves.

3) you can have ADSB and not have it distract you from the window in VMC, you can also find options that don’t spill your personal info all over the air.


So, Like everything, is ADSB good? DEPENDS on how it’s installed and how it’s utilized.

Where do you guys find the time and energy to type all this?

Probably don't have the better option of walking down to the dock with the kids, climb in the boat, and catch a bunch of little fish, having great fun the whole time. You are making good choices Zane. Me, I landed at 9 airports in 2 hours and 15 min this morning, 6 of them grass runways. Oh and to stay on topic no on knows I did it as ADSB is not required where I fly and I am to cheap to spend the money. Now I am off to plow food plots.


Tim

No ADSB thingy required where I go.



Any season of the year.

This is what your new backyard will look like Zzz

Brian M wrote: by someone that is curious about your hunting or fishing spots..

Yikes, I hadn't thought of that... I definitely will not be going ADSB now

Thank goodness for terrain shadowing.

I have found that adsb IN is very useful.. It is very inexpensive. FLY SAFE

Zzz wrote:Where do you guys find the time and energy to type all this?

Birth control

NineThreeKilo wrote: So you believe you would have died without ADSB?

Also NBAA, straight pandering, you’re still transmitting the same data, and the real bad actors, the ones who cause trouble, will go to one of the sites that doesn’t filter, or build a $50 Pi box.
That “block” is just feel good BS, if NBAA and AOPA were anything beyond the NRA of aviation they would have used all that money they collect to fight the ADSB mandate.

My family remembers the “patriot act”, covid anti-constitution acts, and all the tons of abuses from government and rise of the karens, we also somehow survived just fine for all the years before ADSB, plus we do math, and the numbers on midairs are crazy low, always have been, the threat of a Karen calling in frivolous complaints, or guilty till proven innocent by a jury of your prosecutors [FAA], I’d prefer not to transmit my personal info when not absolutely necessary.

There is a huge difference between a always on tracker sending personal info via ADSB, and a paper map or a radio.

How telling, the same government marketing that you have nothing to worry about sending your n number, linked to your address, for some reason wants to not to that same thing on public owned planes, why do the politicians and government workers who mandate you have transmit ADSB, exempt themselves from having to transmit the same information they want you to transmit?

+1 Like

I will stay on topic and not digress into all the who is watching me debate. I have ADSB in/out. Flying in the mountains yesterday I was able to see traffic on my 760 that I never would have seen until the last second due to terrain. I was making radio calls while this person was not. For myself, I absolutely feel that ADSB makes my flights safer. I love being able to see like equipped aircraft. Most of the people I fly with have it installed and it makes locating them easy, especially when terrain makes planes hard to spot. There is not one person I know who installed it that doesn’t wish they would have done it sooner.

In my Cessna, I can see perhaps 30% of my surroundings. Nothing above me, directly below me, or directly behind me. ADSB adds situational awareness of those areas. The best eyeballs in the world can't see through the wings.

My ADSB is on my moving map on my yoke mounted Ipad. Assuming you are flying with a moving map, it doesn't take any more effort to notice an ADSB target while checking your route. I look at the map perhaps once a minute for a few seconds. Most of the flight map apps will also let you bluetooth to your headset to get traffic alerts.

I've also started to use ADSB to help with go/no go decisions. By viewing live reports, I can get a sense of whether other people are flying in conditions that are mediocre. I flew from the San Juan Islands, through Seattle, through Portland, and East down the Columbia Gorge this weekend. Visibilities were as low as 6 miles, and ceilings were indeterminate. Seeing substantial traffic along those routes at 2500-3500 feet suggested the conditions were doable, and they were. I don't have to be the first to check it out.

I made a flight yesterday what was 4 miles viz in smoke almost the whole time. Couldn’t see squat so ASDB would have been nice as I could see the equipped planes.

That’s for the discussion guys. Tires purchased, truly anonymous ADSB system will likely be next.

whee wrote:truly anonymous ADSB system will likely be next.

No such thing

asa wrote:

Zzz wrote:Where do you guys find the time and energy to type all this?

Birth control

Dang! This site REALLY needs a "like" button!

asa wrote:

Zzz wrote:Where do you guys find the time and energy to type all this?

Birth control

I think of it as more a strategic self-ruin. One doesn't make it to their 40s and start having well-timed accidents. But one may say "oof, the only way to right this miscalculation is to double down."

My earlier comment was meant as a tongue in cheek comment on the encroachment of politics and a less than friendly tone in some posts.

I got uavionix adsb in my 160 cub. I don’t mind having it on as slow as it flys. If I’m on a covert mission I’ll just turn it off. My 90hp cub has no electric system so I got a waiver to operate in rule airspace.

kase wrote:If I’m on a covert mission I’ll just turn it off.

Problem is, once it's installed you can't turn it off. Ask Martha how that worked out for her.