Has anyone heard of this company? They look interesting and promising!

https://aerovonics.com/

Just saw their products of FB last night. I agree that it looks very promising.

Oh wow that's interesting. Somewhat redundant with other things I'm installing, however the prospect of TAS, AoA, and DA on a single 2.25" display is very enticing! Looks like you can customize the display to the things you actually care about as well.

Looks like they have a booth at AirVenture in the Innovation Center building. Going to make a point of stopping in and playing with one of these. I was pretty damn close to putting in a TAS-capable analog airspeed and standalone AoA, but this thing solves both problems neatly.

Im not convinced on the probe-less AoA.
I don't see how their system could compensate for the fact that the air itself is dynamic and moving.

It's going to read an artificially low AoA if the body of air I am currently in is descending at 200fpm, for example.

There is no way for the device to know what the air around the aircraft is doing.

Bagarre wrote:Im not convinced on the probe-less AoA.
I don't see how their system could compensate for the fact that the air itself is dynamic and moving.

It's going to read an artificially low AoA if the body of air I am currently in is descending at 200fpm, for example.

There is no way for the device to know what the air around the aircraft is doing.

I agree. It would be interesting to know how they do it.

A1Skinner wrote:

Bagarre wrote:Im not convinced on the probe-less AoA.
I don't see how their system could compensate for the fact that the air itself is dynamic and moving.

It's going to read an artificially low AoA if the body of air I am currently in is descending at 200fpm, for example.

There is no way for the device to know what the air around the aircraft is doing.

I agree. It would be interesting to know how they do it.

If nobody else does it first, I will ask these probing questions at KOSH and report back.

I've been around tech innovation enough to know that just because something is generally done a certain way, doesn't mean it's the only way. Perhaps they came up with an accurate approach that combines pitot/static integration with solid state gyros and accelerometers. I also have to think that if it's being certified it can't just display bullshit, so I'm keeping an open and interested mind.

I'm leery of AOA indicators mounted in the panel. Aspen does that, maybe others. But I believe that the best place for an AOA indicator is on top of the panel, easily within the pilot's peripheral vision if he/she is looking out the windshield. Mine's in a bullet-shaped housing that looks OK, but that it's right there in front of me is the real key benefit.

Cary

Cary wrote:I'm leery of AOA indicators mounted in the panel. Aspen does that, maybe others. But I believe that the best place for an AOA indicator is on top of the panel, easily within the pilot's peripheral vision if he/she is looking out the windshield. Mine's in a bullet-shaped housing that looks OK, but that it's right there in front of me is the real key benefit.

Cary

This goes wherever you happen to have a 2.25" hole from the looks of things. Many panels put those right at the top for the clock. In my new panel I also happened to be putting said clock hole right under the glare shield, so it's a pretty useful place for this. I agree I wouldn't want an AoA down low though. I also want to see how their audio alerting works, since they do have provisions for hardwiring to the audio panel.

FYI here is what I pulled on AoA from their pilot's manual:
1.1. Angle of Attack
Angle of Attack is derived from pitot and static pressure measurements combined with
internal inertial reference measurements. No dedicated external probes or other aircraft
modifications are required for AoA functionality.
AoA is computed based on the difference between aircraft pitch angle, and the aircrafts
path angle through the air, and current G loading.
An upper “near-stall” calibration point is set by the pilot and represents the desired
alerting / maximum scale point. A lower calibration point represents the nominal
“cruise” AoA and is used to set the lower boundary of the AoA scale. The amount of
pre-warning for an AoA alert prior to the certified aircraft stall point is based on pilot
preference.
Both visual and aural alerting is provided when the AoA is approaching or exceeds the
upper calibration point. AoA and associated alerting is only available on the AV-20-S
model. AoA information is not for primary aircraft control and is provided for
supplemental situational awareness only.

The antique or more traditional look of their product really appeals to me. For someone doing a panel upgrade the ability to maintain a style that's in keeping with the vintage of their ride and avoid the magenta/cyan colors is a great option. The round faced "dials" give a feel and look that I think will attract plenty of attention with a wide market. If they can display a "working" representation at KOSH I bet its a hit. The other key will be wide comparability with the various navigational sources, if its pigeonholed to a narrow few that will hurt. I have recently been looking at various options for a panel upgrade and cross compatibility is a key factor in cost control.

A KOSH visit isn't in the cards for me this year so I will thank anyone who can report back with their thoughts, impression and insight.

Cheers,

Bagarre wrote:Im not convinced on the probe-less AoA.
I don't see how their system could compensate for the fact that the air itself is dynamic and moving.

It's going to read an artificially low AoA if the body of air I am currently in is descending at 200fpm, for example.

There is no way for the device to know what the air around the aircraft is doing.

https://aerovonics.com/av-20-product-faq

Looks like they updated their FAQ page to reflect what I was talking about.

...during conditions where the aircraft is moving through a mass of air that has a vertical component, the behavior is slightly different....

I still think this is a great product and I'm considering it over a G5 but I don't put much stock in an AOA gauge anyway.

Ok, so it just reads higher AOA in a downdraft; their page says +5.6 degrees for a -1000fpm downdraft, speed dependent. You'd be adding power and hopefully climbing out by that point if you're close to the ground anyway, so not a biggie to me. $795 show special with very simple minor install, I'm not seeing much downside to this instrument, especially given the other information it displays. I will see if I can play with one next week and report back though.

colopilot wrote:Ok, so it just reads higher AOA in a downdraft; their page says +5.6 degrees for a -1000fpm downdraft, speed dependent. You'd be adding power and hopefully climbing out by that point if you're close to the ground anyway, so not a biggie to me. $795 show special with very simple minor install, I'm not seeing much downside to this instrument, especially given the other information it displays. I will see if I can play with one next week and report back though.

Yes they do look good. I was reading thir site today and noticed that they can connect only to a panel mount GPS. I've been emailing with the founder since and suggested they make connecting to a handheld an option. He agreed that it would be a good idea and they I'll try to make that happen.
Nice to see companies like this that are open to opinions and willing to work with customers.

In reading the "About Us" on their website the founder of AeroVonics has some serious credentials to support his abilities I'm even more impressed by the potential for this product

I finally got over to see them this afternoon and got to try one of these out. It looks like a well made unit, and the functionality is good. I asked about accuracy of the probeless AoA, and basically it’s within the resolution of the display bars so all good there - nobody here is going to fly within 0.5 degrees or whatever anyway, no matter what you tell yourself. The stall calibration was dead simple and the rest of it seemed intuitive.

Bottom line, you get a lot of very useful data for $795 (current show special price if you order this week, $895 after that). He expects STC imminently, and then the first run to ship in 30-60 days. I liked it enough that I’m ordering one. If I piecemealed all of this in separate instruments I’d be $3-5k easy.

colopilot wrote:I finally got over to see them this afternoon and got to try one of these out. It looks like a well made unit, and the functionality is good. I asked about accuracy of the probeless AoA, and basically it’s within the resolution of the display bars so all good there - nobody here is going to fly within 0.5 degrees or whatever anyway, no matter what you tell yourself. The stall calibration was dead simple and the rest of it seemed intuitive.

Bottom line, you get a lot of very useful data for $795 (current show special price if you order this week, $895 after that). He expects STC imminently, and then the first run to ship in 30-60 days. I liked it enough that I’m ordering one. If I piecemealed all of this in separate instruments I’d be $3-5k easy.

Thanks for the PIREP Garth. Is this for the smaller one or for the 3"?

The smaller one. The 3” won’t be STC’d for a while I guess.

(Garth?)

colopilot wrote:The smaller one. The 3” won’t be STC’d for a while I guess.

(Garth?)

Haha. Sorry for calling you Garth. My bad. :/. Still great info. I wonder if a guy would put a 3" experimental in for now if they would sell you the STC for it when the paperwork is all finishef...

Did anyone else in the BCP community who attended KOSH get a chance to visit the AeroVonic display and can offer a thought or two on the V-20 & V-30 devices

Mapleflt wrote:Did anyone else in the BCP community who attended KOSH get a chance to visit the AeroVonic display and can offer a thought or two on the V-20 & V-30 devices

I talked to them as well and checked out their stuff.
I'm not an AOA fan to begin with to 'probeless AoA' seems gimmicky to be kind. If you're flying so close to the edge that she may stall at any moment, the last thing you should be looking at is another gauge in the panel. As a safety device well, you ignored the stall horn, why would this make any difference. But, I digress.

The 3" horizon shows promise and seems well thought out if not trying a little too hard to do everything at once. They have a nice declutter feature to make it 'just a horizon' which is nice. They expect it to be available for Experimental 'later this year' with the STC'd version available 'later next year'.... That makes it too far out for me to worry about. It kind of convinced me to just get a G5.

Bagarre wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:Did anyone else in the BCP community who attended KOSH get a chance to visit the AeroVonic display and can offer a thought or two on the V-20 & V-30 devices

I talked to them as well and checked out their stuff.
I'm not an AOA fan to begin with to 'probeless AoA' seems gimmicky to be kind. If you're flying so close to the edge that she may stall at any moment, the last thing you should be looking at is another gauge in the panel. As a safety device well, you ignored the stall horn, why would this make any difference. But, I digress.

The 3" horizon shows promise and seems well thought out if not trying a little too hard to do everything at once. They have a nice declutter feature to make it 'just a horizon' which is nice. They expect it to be available for Experimental 'later this year' with the STC'd version available 'later next year'.... That makes it too far out for me to worry about. It kind of convinced me to just get a G5.

Thank for the Pirep Bagarre. This leads to this question: if an instrument isn't required for the applicable flight, can it be experimental? Or do all instruments hard mounted into the panel have to be certified? Can of worms I know...