4 years later, one kid at home, another on the way. I’ve thought about buying another plane every day since I sold the -12, but just hasn’t been something I’ve wanted to pursue on my budget. Ownership taught me a lot about what I’d want in a future plane, being a father made me think more about what I’d feel comfortable with safety wise, and my wallet is the constraint. Time isn’t of the essence, but I want to get started versus holding off another 5-10 years, which I could see turning into 20, or never. I’m finishing up a master’s degree this fall, so I expect to have more time on hands and want an airplane project I can put my heart into. If it takes 5-10 years to complete that’s fine, but like I said I want to start rather than idling by.

I need some direction, I’m more so trying to figure out the smartest way to do this. I want something I’m comfortable with from a safety and reliability standpoint, and I’d like to have a lot more freedom to work on and modify the airplane myself. Experimental, -12 or -18. I’m not looking to fly the whole family around, it’s more so for my personal enjoyment, and potentially something my kids can fly when they’re of age.

Of course, I need it to be affordable, so I’m apparently looking for a unicorn. Totally willing to put in the work to build or rebuild one. Fabric, wiring, controls, panel, assembly, whatever. Honestly, being able to go through the airplane myself and knowing how it all comes together is part of the appeal.

What I’m having trouble making sense of is the economics. By the time I price a new kit, engine, prop, instruments, covering, landing gear, etc., it starts looking like I’m going to spend substantially more building a kit plane than I would buying one that’s already flying, tearing it apart, and reworking or buying someone’s “baby”, which I can’t afford. I also looked at starting with a new airframe, wing ribs set, flaps, and gear, but ended up with a similar pricing problem once you add in everything else. However, I do like the fact that the costs are only associated with the part you’re currently working on, like you don’t have to buy the whole kit, you can start with a major part and build up. My only other thought has been to look for either someone’s failed project or an older fuselage sitting in a garage. On the other hand, maybe that’s one of those ideas that sounds economical until you’ve actually done it.

For those of you who have built/rebuilt -12s, -18s, or similar Experimentals, what would you do today? Where’s the sweet spot?

I’m not looking to build a show plane, the ultimate STOL craft, or a tech widget with wings. I want a safe, dependable, and like-new -12/-18 that performs well off airport, that I can maintain myself.

Don’t break my dreams!

Very timely question, a similar idea has been rolling around in my head. I upgraded my 170B from a "working" one into what I have today and it was rewarding. My wife and I will soon be empty nester's so a two seater is on the horizon for me. I'm now considering my next project and I've kind of settled on restoring a PA-12; a bit more elbow room for the Missus with all the plus, plus add on performance options.

When the time comes I will look for a good set of bones; welding is a skill, that in my case is best left to others. Otherwise I will start with a stripped stripped airframe and go from there. Since low & slow is my jam it will have a full set of lift enhancing wing add-ons, double slotted Fowler Flaps, leading edge slats, oversized wheels, not huge on extended gear legs, ski & float attachments are a must have as well. Under the hood will be a normally asperated 0-360 engine on a swing out engine mount with a fixed pitch Catto or similar prop at the pointy end. In the little bit of early research I've done the PA-12 seems to be well within my snack bracket as a starting point, even a skeletal PA-18 is pricy in comparison. I have also looked at skeletal Bellanca Scouts or a later model flapped Citabrias.

It will be "re-assembled" with an obsessive focus on weight saving boarding on full blown OCD. A Catto prop weights about 15 lbs, EarthX battery at 4 lbs, minimal day vfr instruments only, oratex skins on all surfaces, carbon fiber floor boards, seat pans, instrument panel etc.

It seems this phenomenon of suffering detachment from aviation when the kids arrive affects many of us. I've watched in awe as other guys are able to continue flying and even taking their young families on trips. That part is hard enough, now if we're out of the airplane game we have to contend with these ridiculous prices, which aren't just the expected inflation—the market has outpaced inflation by multiples. Everyone says it's getting softer but I think maybe that's information that only buyers and sellers are privy to, because the list prices keep climbing.

A 170 is a 2-seat airplane, and Cubs/Citabrias etc are essentially 1-seat if you actually want to accomplish anything or go anywhere, especially on floats.

A decade ago I was in your shoes. I had the itch to build, but the economics weren't adding up. I even thought about buying a damaged experimental and fixing it to bring the value equation back into alignment with my bank account. In the end, I bought a good used plane and have flown it through the first engine and am on my second and I'm not looking back. The 180 Hp Maule I wound up with is not always ideal, but it ticks enough boxes to make it better for me than any other option I've considered.

At my age, changing planes would mean a serious hit on insurance costs, so I've stayed with the tried and true machine I have. After the kids struck out on their own, I thought it might be time for a 2 seat motor glider since my wife only flies with me on rare occasions. Even though an argument could be made that a motor glider is safer than any pure power plane, the insurance costs would have more than doubled initially, and that was with a plane that had a lower hull value than my Maule. So that option was placed in the round file. Ultimately it boils down to what is more important to you - flying, or building. If building a plane is your real goal, then the added cost is just the price of pursuing your dream. If flying is your real goal, then finding a good used plane to get in the sky with is a much cheaper alternative, and it will have you in the air immediately rather than spending 5-10 years building a plane in your spare time.

Building a kit or even a "put a bunch of parts together" experimental is NOT an economical way to get into aviation, frankly. As noted, kit prices are high, and engines.....holy crap!!!

I'd look for a used plane that maybe needs a bit of love, and work to improve it. I've seen a few lately that aren't priced in the "ridiculous" range, that have old fabric, avionics, etc.

I really wanted a Supercub and looked for a long time at climbing prices. Ended up finding a flying home built PA18 that was frankly in poor shape and had some really awful cosmetics. But the builder had flown it for 30 years on skis and floats and had fun in it. It was in Northern Saskatchewan and a long road trip to trailer it home. Took me over a year to get it back together in a state that I was comfortable to leave the ground in it and I flew it about 50 hours last fall. It was a blast. Took the wings off when it was too cold to fly it without the doors and honestly thought I would have them recovered and back on for Osh. Not a realistic timeline. Getting close to painting wings and flying it again this fall. But the fuselage still needs doing.

I am enjoying the process, and I have a flying 170, but it is a lot of work. Extremely easy to underestimate the time it takes to build. And I purposely chose something that had everything there. Still takes a lot of energy to learn, choose and source parts and materials. Shop, rotisserie, paint booth. It all sucks time.

If you want to fly buy the very best airplane that you can. Cheaper and easier.

If you want to rebuild, restore, refresh and airplane it has to be about the experience of doing so, it will never be the cost effective way into airplane ownership. The journey can be a lot of fun if you accept and understand what you are getting into.

As mentioned, it is generally cheaper to buy a flying airplane, or flying project than it is to build. I have owned several projects/kits over the past 40 years. They ALWAYS take longer than expected to get up to my standards, and cost much more than originally budgeted for. Of course a lot of this is inflation that occurs due to the extended build/repair times involved.

I love flying, so I have always had another plane to fly during these times. It helps keep me motivated.

As other posters on here, I am starting to age out in the building area. 67 YO but past injuries have slowly crept up on me limiting my working days. I'll still keep maintaining and doing improvements, but my building days are about done.

I will mention that with MOSAIC, the ability to buy an already built/flying experimental and being able to maintain/sign off condition inspections just got much easier. I'm not saying that it is something every owner should or can do, but a 16 hour course allows a non builder of an experimental, that a person owns, to do their own CI. I recently took the course and feel I am compitant enough to do this to the airplanes that I own. Basically, if you are confident in your own abilities, you can pick up an alreaddy flying EAB and be way ahead of the game.

If going certified, I have a friend that has aged out (82 YO) and has mentioned that he will probably be selling his PA-14. It's a plane I always was interested in, unfortunately, I highly doubt that I will ever own another certified plane.

I want a two place, tandem, stick plane and was considering building a Bearhawk, but cost will be wayyyyyy too high. Now looking for an older (but metal spar) Scout.

Prices are coming down. I have recently saw a 12 for sale with crosswinds wings and 180 hp for under 100 grand. Also a nice 18 for a bit over 100 grand. I suspect both might need engine rebuild sooner than latter. Good experimental aircraft are not cheep and lots of them have mods that are not really correct done by previous owners. I would look hard at the amount of time you have for building after work/wife/kids get there fair share of your time. It is not that hard to find an IA that will sign off properly performed work and while you are at it work towards your A&P. Will you be getting a hanger? You have been through the beater with a heater first stage I always recommend for learning. I would say find a basic flying plane you like and an IA that will work with you on repairs and upgrades over the years. If you don't have a hanger Fall and early winter are great times to pull off tail/wings/engine and repair or upgrade as needed at home shop one part at a time over the years to keep it flying. Get in the air by March and spend the good weather flying. Your old 12 is in front of my hanger getting some work done it is looking good. No right or wrong good luck.
DENNY

I see Husky A1’s in the low $100k range over and over again lately. They are cutting prices on their new spec builds. Still outrageously expensive but the writing is on the wall.
Joe Dory has a nice PA-18 150 for sale for $110k.