mtv wrote:

NoCOpilot wrote:

mtv wrote:So by that definition, ANY airspeed system is in fact an "Angle of Attack Indicator", since EVERY airspeed system in fact measures ram air pressure and compares it to static pressure.

There's not a static port on these differential pressure AOA systems, rather two ram ports at some angle to each other. If your AOA system acts like an ASI, or vise versa, then you're not doing it right. I've flown a bit in a Rans with a Dynon Skyview equipped with their optional AOA pitot tube (AOA integrated into the pitot tube, one of the two AOA ram ports is also the pitot port, but same principle as the standalone AOA systems), and they work quite well.

You can question the usefulness of having AOA information in the cockpit, but the operational principle of these devices is sound and totally different than an ASI.

My point was, that's a very poor definition of what a REAL AOA sensor looks like. Here's an image of a more typical AOA sensor:

The Piper Warrior pitot mast is remarkably similar to what one of these general aviation systems uses as a sensor. I'll post a photo when I can get through the snowdrifts to a hangar....

MTV

Well, there's more than one way to skin a cat, but it still tastes like chicken in the end!
Here's a photo of the Differential Pressure AOA vane/sensor on the Military Airplane I fly. Did I mention it was a Differential Pressure AOA system and not a mechanical flying wing sensor? The interesting thing about diff pressure sensors are they can sense angular changes faster than a mechanical flying wing (rheostat type) sensor...but I'm only talking about milliseconds. The bottom line is that it doesn't have to look like the image you posted to be an true AOA sensor/system.



Hey Vick!
How's the sand? Have you been "Chiefed" lately?

Semper Paratus (Always Something?)
or
Solum Volamus, Fieri Alam

Vick wrote:

iPipehitter599 wrote:Hey Vick - It's Cabi~. You know me, Vick, I've been flying AOA systems for 24 yrs and I can tell you diffinitively that this is a "real" AOA system. He's even got a unit that's got Bitching-Betty in it too!

Hey Cabi, welcome to BCP. About time you stop posting pics of plastic planes on FB and post some shots of your Cub on here.

I'm with you on AoA, kept my ass alive more than once, especially around the boat. I'm looking forward to giving the Alpha Systems product a try some time, decide for myself its value.

Hey Vick,
Okay...here's one of me at Pt. Conception as part of a 15 ship formation (West Coast Piper Cub Fly In). Note the rather LOW angle of attack? (there, that makes it pertinent to the thread)




Cheers!

Solum Volamus Fieri Alam

Hi All First time posting. Student pilot 50+ hrs 172A. Love BCP..Great stuff! I like reading things from different point of view other than just FAA. After reading Stick & Rudder (Langewiesche) and Takeoff & Landings (Leighton Collins-founder of Air Facts) I hope to have an AOA guage some day.They both said that AOA guage was the only instrument the Wright Bros. used for first flights.Sound like they both belived strongly in AOA guage. I wonder what they would say if they were still here?

They would say....."buy bigger tires"....

An update: I now own a Cessna 175 with numerous modifications. One of which is one of these "AOA systems". I've tried numerous times to use the thing, but frankly, I can do a lot better just feeling what the airplane is telling me. In fact, if anything, the thing is a distraction, so I've learned to blank it out of my peripheral vision.

POS. And, yes, it's "properly calibrated".

I guess the story about old dogs is true.

MTV

cowbuzzer wrote:Hi All First time posting. Student pilot 50+ hrs 172A. Love BCP..Great stuff! I like reading things from different point of view other than just FAA. After reading Stick & Rudder (Langewiesche) and Takeoff & Landings (Leighton Collins-founder of Air Facts) I hope to have an AOA guage some day.They both said that AOA guage was the only instrument the Wright Bros. used for first flights.Sound like they both belived strongly in AOA guage. I wonder what they would say if they were still here?

6 years from joining to first post...you got this!

mtv wrote:An update: I now own a Cessna 175 with numerous modifications. One of which is one of these "AOA systems". I've tried numerous times to use the thing, but frankly, I can do a lot better just feeling what the airplane is telling me. In fact, if anything, the thing is a distraction, so I've learned to blank it out of my peripheral vision.

POS. And, yes, it's "properly calibrated".

I guess the story about old dogs is true.

MTV

Sheesh, Mike, you're really not too old to learn! It took me awhile to learn, too, and I'm a pretty fair "seat of the pants" pilot, but after flying with it now for 8 1/2 years and roughly 550 hours, I have found it to be very useful. Granted, I probably started learning it at a younger age than you are now (I was 66 at the time), but apply yourself, man! It's like bifocals--if you refuse to wear them, you'll never get used to them.

Cary

WARNING thread drift; I refuse to wear bifocals, drift over continue as previously cleared

Cary, I think what Mike is talking about is the sights (outside), sounds, and feel type situational awareness that translates directly to control movement without if then processing. No matter how fast a computer, no matter how quick our response to instrument indications, neither is as fast as contact flying. That is why instrument flight is so well prepared for and regulated. Takeoff, climb out, enroute, arrival, approach, and landing are are on cleared space and altitude and airspeed and procedural track are controlled. Even control movement by pilot or computer is limited to prevent upset.

When I was flying 25 hours per week, I could takeoff and land shorter than Motoadve without brakes. I don't think he uses brakes either. Now, I can't do that. Soon he will move from the AOA indicator to sights (outside), sounds, and feel totally and get in and out a bit shorter.

It's not that we are too old to learn, just that we have been doing a bit better and see no reason to change.

There is a mis conception that AoA indicators are just for landing.

They work for best glide speed, Vx Vy, take off, while turning , all aspects of flight.

Can you get seats of the pants for Vy or Vx? To have the very best performance of your plane?

In my case I bought my AoA when I had 100 hrs total time, 50 in my 182.
Wanted to learn short field operations and there were no instructors in Costa Rica to teach me.

AoA did the job, along with asking questions here , studying and lots of practice..
Almost 2000hrs later still love it and use it.

They do work.
Even in you are very experienced bush pilot, fly seat of the pants and look at the AoA to corroborate if you are leaving some extra performance or you are just doing great.
The HUD is not distracting at all.

Yes, I think HUD makes a big difference. I hadn't thought of the other applications. Bear in mind, however, that without it we old guys may tend to allow the nose to go down a bit in a steep turn. We who fly low don't want to fly on the edge. We want to maneuver aggressively to miss stuff while allowing the airplane to do what it was designed to do. The design of the airplane is too fly, not stall.

You have done an amazing job with your airplane and AOA HUD.