Man that's a lot of clutter what's your office desk look like

You really don't want to know! You do know that a clean desk is a sign of a dirty mind, right? Actually, I'd love it if it were possible to incorporate all that stuff into the panel instead of on top of it, but that's not possible, given the amount of real estate available.

When I first read this thread before throwing in my own comments, I hadn't taken the time to read Professor Rogers' paper. I'm no engineer, and I can't quibble with all of his formulas--heck, I avoided math like the plague in college, so my last real math class was in HS some 52 years ago, and if it weren't for Excel, I couldn't add a column of figures any more--so I didn't understand any of them. But I can quibble with some of his "givens".

In my airplane, and I suggest in most GA airplanes, knowing the AOA at cruise is unimportant. The other 2 points of reference he describes, which essentially are best glide speed and least altitude loss speed for purposes of engine loss emergencies, are certainly more useful, but rarely. But for most of us, the angle of attack as we get closer to stall speed is the critical one, and for that, it appears from his discussion (between the formulas) that if I maintain coordinated flight (i.e. no yawing beyond 6 degrees), I should get a pretty reliable, repeatable indication of the angle of attack--and guess what? I do!

I agree that being able to fly by feel is a good skill--I can do it as well as most, given 41 years and close to 2 1/2 thousand hours all in light singles. I also agree that the airspeed indicator has served GA well for all these years. But I also think a good AOA system is a significant safety improvement. Whether you choose the Alpha Systems pressure differential method or Rip's vane method, I think either will be money well spent.

I wish you well, Rip. It would be interesting to see the results if an airplane were to be equipped with both yours and the Alpha Systems and compare the panel indications--but I'll bet they'd be pretty close.

Cary

Rip,

Sometimes the answer to a vexing problem is so simple the engineer overlooks it. This one is simple, . . . to avoid freeze damage, ask your supplier to mix the two parts prior to shipping.

No need to thank me,

You're welcome,

bumper

rq3 wrote:

M6RV6 wrote:

rq3 wrote:CYA-100 Shipment Update:
I have built enough units to fill orders to date BUT, the urethane potting compound I use for the display can't
be shipped in freezing conditions. My supplier thinks we have a window of opportunity this week, so I'll be
shipping later this week if all goes well.

Thanks,
Rip

So does this mean it won't work in a freezing airplane?? I'm not the sharpest tack in the card you know!! Please xplane!

Think two part epoxy. The urethane is two liquids that get mixed together and then harden. Once it's hardened, the urethane is good from -72C to +200C. But the unmixed liquids don't tolerate freezing very well.
Rip

I was just not sure what Cover Your Ass-100 was!!

M6RV6 wrote:I was just not sure what Cover Your Ass-100 was!!

Check Your Angle-100. Thanks to my son-in-law for the tongue in cheek name.
http://www.ackemma.com/index.html

Rip

bumper wrote:Rip,

Sometimes the answer to a vexing problem is so simple the engineer overlooks it. This one is simple, . . . to avoid freeze damage, ask your supplier to mix the two parts prior to shipping.

No need to thank me,

You're welcome,

bumper

Bumper, I seriously considered this. Circuit board prepreg is often shipped partially cured and frozen. I asked my urethane supplier if they could pre-tint, mix, and freeze this material prior to shipping. They were not enthusiastic.

Rip

rq3 wrote:. They were not enthusiastic.

This is surprising. I used to get mine delivered on dry ice routinely. And Ive shipped dozens of items with phase change shipping materials, which keeps things above condensation temperatures down to -20F for 48 hours if properly used, and it is even less expensive than shipping in dry ice.

I shipped 12 CYA-100 today via UPS ground. Although this group didn't quite make the 10 for the discount, between this group, the Husky group, and the Mooney group enough orders came in that I am honoring the 10% discount for anyone who ordered during the month of January 2014. Rebate checks are included in the shipment.

At this point my printed circuit fabricator is back-ordered until Feb. 19, so remaining shipments will go out at the end of February.

Thank you everyone!
Rip

Bumper - will you be posting an install and test flight of your CYA-100?

To All;

The printed circuit boards arrived today, so I am madly assembling units to fill outstanding orders. Thanks to everyone for their patience! All other parts are in hand, so I WILL be shipping over the next 2 weeks (max).

Early in February I filed paperwork with the FAA to comply with their new AoA memorandum, and hopefully with have official FAA blessing soon, for those of you who may have IA's uncomfortable with a simple log book entry as a minor modification. The FAA is very hot to see these things, from whatever manufacturer, in action. I am hopeful that they respond quickly.

I had a customer in Canada who was unhappy with the vane action. He very kindly sent me photographs, and in response I am modifying the design of the vane/magnet assembly. It will be invisible to the end user, but feedback from customers is critical to the success of any product, and I welcome any input!

Fly Safe,
Rip

FAA Clears Path for Angle of Attack Indicator Installation
Earlier this month, the FAA took an important step to help improve GA safety by rolling out a more simplified set of design approval requirements for angle of attack (AOA) indicators. AOA devices can be added to small planes to supplement airspeed indicators and stall warning systems, alerting pilots of a low airspeed condition before a dangerous aerodynamic stall occurs, especially during takeoff and landing.
Under the new policy, manufacturers must build the AOA indicator system according to standards from the American Society for Testing and Materials (ATSM) and apply for FAA approval for the design via a letter certifying that the equipment meets ATSM standards and was produced under required quality systems. The FAA’s Chicago Aircraft Certification Office will process all applications to ensure consistent interpretation of the policy.
The FAA believes this streamlined policy may serve as a prototype for production approval and installation of other add-on aircraft systems in the future. For more information as well as a link to the policy document, go to http://go.usa.gov/BVZm.

Flyboy_AK wrote:Bumper, you need more quality stick time not more gadgets IMHO. Put avgas in the plane and fly the crap out of it low and slow, at Minimum airspeeds. Get comfortable on the bottom end of the curve. No gadget is going to help basic feel for the wing and airmanship.

Hello Backcountry Pilots,

Suffering from insomnia tonight so I thought I'd respond to this thread.

I tend to agree with this guy. In my line of work I see most new and some older pilots relying too much on gadgets. Basic "stick and rudder skills" are imperative for backcountry flying operations. Practicing slow flight is a great tool to get the feel of any particular airplane. The time to deal with a stall is when the controls feel excessively "mushy", not when the stall horn is blaring and one wing has already stalled.

Helicopter training stresses attitude or sight picture flying. This is not emphasized in airplane training as much which is a mistake. Most of the initial CFI applicants that pass though our office can barley fly a traffic pattern. Most of them overshoot final on base leg and attempt to demonstrate a low-level accelerated stall. If I turn off the GPS during the checkride at least 25% of the CFI Applicants can't find the airport they just departed from.

Personally I think a functional airspeed indicator, keeping the turn coordinator ball centered (in trim unless intending to slip), listening to the engine, and keeping your eyes outside the cockpit is more than adequate for safe short field flight operations. However, if a new angle of attack indicator makes you feel more comfortable by all means buy one. Myself, I'd rather spend the $$$ on 100LL and cheap red wine.

James

Rip
Any chance of a different mount? I'd like to install something like this on my Challenger II since I can't find an ASI that's accurate anywhere near it's solo stall speed. the underside of my wings are completely fabric, so no way to mount anything there. And the wing tips are hornier style, so no flat spots on the bottom. My only option with your standard mount would be under the belly, and there it would get drug through deep snow and grass. I'd like to mount one horizontally on the side of the nose cone. Any suggestions?
Thanks.

Phil

Phil, that beautiful nose on your Challenger II is just begging to have an angle of attack probe mounted to it. I'd put it underneath, as far forward as possible.

Rip

rq3 wrote:Phil, that beautiful nose on your Challenger II is just begging to have an angle of attack probe mounted to it. I'd put it underneath, as far forward as possible.

Rip

How about on top? I don't want to block my landing light after all. How much of an angle can the mounting bracket handle? Would be awesome if I could mount it straight out in front like on older military jets.

Phil

Bear_Builder wrote:

rq3 wrote:Phil, that beautiful nose on your Challenger II is just begging to have an angle of attack probe mounted to it. I'd put it underneath, as far forward as possible.

Rip

How about on top? I don't want to block my landing light after all. How much of an angle can the mounting bracket handle? Would be awesome if I could mount it straight out in front like on older military jets.

Phil

Hi Phil;
Top won't work, because it would read backwards! Remember, it's measuring the relative wind in respect to the airplane's longitudinal axis. If you flip the vane up-side down, the display will be "up-side down" too.

I think I can see your landing light in the photo, and the vane wouldn't be in the way at all if mounted underneath and forward ( say 4 inches back from the point of the nose). The vane assembly is only 3.75 inches high.
Rip

Bear_Builder wrote:

rq3 wrote:Phil, that beautiful nose on your Challenger II is just begging to have an angle of attack probe mounted to it. I'd put it underneath, as far forward as possible.

Rip

How about on top? I don't want to block my landing light after all. How much of an angle can the mounting bracket handle? Would be awesome if I could mount it straight out in front like on older military jets.

Phil

Phil, you could have the probe pointing straight forward like on older military jets, but you'll need a flat spot 1.125 inch high x .375 inch wide to screw it to. I've even done custom probes where the height was cut down to 2 inches from the standard 3.75 inches.
Rip

rq3 wrote:Hi Phil;
Top won't work, because it would read backwards! Remember, it's measuring the relative wind in respect to the airplane's longitudinal axis. If you flip the vane up-side down, the display will be "up-side down" too.

I think I can see your landing light in the photo, and the vane wouldn't be in the way at all if mounted underneath and forward ( say 4 inches back from the point of the nose). The vane assembly is only 3.75 inches high.
Rip

And the curve at the front of the nose cone won't affect the airflow enough to prevent accurate readings? I'd always assumed a vane would need to be on the side of the nose, just below where the windshield ends, or mounted to the front jury strut to ensure it was in undisturbed air.

Phil

>And the curve at the front of the nose cone won't affect the airflow enough to prevent accurate readings? I'd always assumed a vane would need to be on the side of the nose, just below where the windshield ends, or mounted to the front jury strut to ensure it was in undisturbed air.

Phil<

Won't hurt it at all. Remember, you're going to calibrate the unit your particular installation. Mine is installed towards the front on the underside of a big tip tank. Works great.
Rip

Greetings Everyone;

All outstanding orders for CYA-100 angle of attack indicators shipped today.
Rebate checks are included in the box.

Many Thanks!
Rip

RIP
I'm looking on my WILGA to put this thing to see what happens.
If I put it n the bottom of the extended Pitot tube, It would be about 12" in front of the wing leading edge?
Good Place?
Thanks in Advance