BM,

By all means, let us know what you think. My contention remains that on a single engine airplane, these things will NEVER be able to be very precise, or reliable in avoiding stall/spin accidents, since the AOA at any moment can easily vary span-wise, and THAT is precisely where most folks get into that kind of trouble. Due to propeller blast effect, the only place to mount the "sensors" for these things is out on the wing, far away from the prop blast. And, the problem there is that the wing itself dramatically influences the flow of air around it....just like it does for an airspeed pitot mast.

Look at the "sensor" for the one the guy in Minnesota makes.....it looks remarkably like the PITOT mast from a Cherokee or Warrior. It's comparing pressure differential between to ports on the same mast, just like the Piper pitot mast does. So, how is this thing going to be so much more accurate than a pitot mast, pray tell?

REAL AOA information is great. The problem is, it's really hard to derive ACCURATE AOA information in a single engine airplane for the reasons noted above. And, frankly, if the thing isn't that precise, it's no better than an airspeed instrument. And, if you're working a small airplane in close quarters, your BUTT is going to be MUCH more reliable, assuming it's properly trained.

Let us know which model you're installing, how it goes with the FSDO (have you verified with the FSDO that THEY think it's a minor?) and what your experience with it is.

MTV

mtv wrote:
Let us know which model you're installing, how it goes with the FSDO (have you verified with the FSDO that THEY think it's a minor?) and what your experience with it is.

MTV

No need to call FSDO as it's a minor mod. It's not FSDO's call to make, it's the mechanics. I took it up to the hangar today to leave for the mechanic to install. I have this one.

http://www.alphaaoa.com/Dash-Mount-Mech ... -5070K.htm

BM,

Well, I can introduce you to two FSDOs who have determined that that particular device is indeed a major alteration. But, if your mechanic puts it in and signs it off as a minor, it's not your problem.

Let us know the results. We put one of those in a 185 in Alaska years ago, and evaluated it. I'll be interested to hear your view.

Of course, any time a pilot spends money on a mod, it's GOT to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.....

MTV

Hmmmmm After all the back and forth about AOA and its value, its interesting that no one has mentioned anything of the Airspeed/AOA value while loading or unloading the wing (G's). No mention of energy management and its effect.

You can get away with some techniques in some planes like Bumper in his Husky flying a Box Canyon turn. He turns and just pulls back hard, I can do that to a limit in my 180, lightly loaded. At gross with a rearward CG, it will accelerate stall nicely even with a STOL kit. I would be plastered on the side of a mountain if I did that in the S2F3-AT. Its not a terribly large plane really, but has a heavy wing loading. For steep drops I regularly fly BELOW Indicated STALL speed less than 200 AGL. With the wing unloaded, that is possible and relatively safe, all things considered. And the AOA agrees. (Very expensive AOA) But if I pull back on the yoke, even slightly, BAM! shudder, STALL IMMEDIATELY. Even easily stalling at 20 knots higher IAS. No lag in the AOA, BUT it would be to late anyway. You just don't fly a wing with a high wing loading without knowing and feeling the limits based on your experience, your butt, the current weight, AND your A/S or AOA. Flying it single pilot I'm not pulling out my weight/Airspeed card every few minutes to find my new stall speed.

Small aircraft wing loading and small payload variations (few hundred pounds) allow you to get away with alot. The wings are forgiving in general. I wouldn't buy an AOA for my 180, but in aircraft with the ability to change their weight drastically, I would admit the AOA is very helpful as a tool to back up your other senses and A/S. My only experience with them is with the expensive, multi-sensor, vane mounted on the nose, type.

If you ask all 26 of my pilot coworkers with experience levels from 38 years to 2 years in the business, you will probably get 26 variations on how to achieve the same result. Landing or diving into a smoky turbulent canyon with a tight, rising terrain exit.

I'm not a huge gadget guy, kinda old school, definitely seat of the pants pilot, but appreciate the new, even embrace some of it. If a C-172 pilot with all the bells and whistles, AOA, NASA mods, Lunar landing gear, etc can fly a plane as ACCURATELY and CONSISTENTLY into the SAME place as a pilot WITHOUT one single working instrument in his panel, are you really going to give that guy crap? If he stared at his AOA and A/S all the way to touchdown and though the roll out with a oversize IFR hood on into the same 700' dirt strip, I would ask him how the hell he does it!?!!

In the continuing argument over the value of AOAs, here's the latest from the FAA: http://www.alphasystemsaoa.com/pdf/Alph ... 012-WM.pdf

I have another 60 hours flying with mine since my last post, and I haven't changed my mind. If I ever get another airplane, an AOA will be one of the very first installations, even if it's a model that I have enough experience flying that my "seat of the pants" AOA works well.

Cary

Hey Duane. You can get a definite break with your hershey bar? With the ball centered? It's been years since I've been in one, but I used to kind of like the little farts. In a departure stall with the ball out of the cage I think I remember a little bit of a break, nothing like a Cessna though. I just remember that in a full aft stick situation at VSO you get this massive sink, on the order like you say of, 1000 feet or so. No break though. So what folks are saying, especially Gump in the beginning before the AOA fight, is go play. Horse around with the power at full aft stick and break the decent. If you're a little unsure about it get a CFI and play behind the power curve on purpose until you can feel what the wing is doing.

But don't let the wingtip hit any boulders on the edge of the runway!

JimC wrote:The only instrument that matters in it is the oil pressure gauge, and I don't use it much on short final.

This quote really jumped out at me while rereading this thread. Those words are golden

Regarding the AoA comments posted in this topic.
I put one last year and have flown about 200 hrs with it.
I have found during our windy season , it has been very helpful, just keep the 2 yellow lights and landings were nice with no float or sink all the time.
Our windy season lasts 4 months and all my landings were way better than before I installed the AoA.
No more guessing the approach speed with the current wind, temp, weight etc.

Now for short field landings, I dont look at it much, maybe once and once the ASI, I rather be looking outside and getting a feel for it. I have tried looking at it , but just doesnt feel right looking inside.

For normal approaches and landings is good tool, windy landings too.
Im happy with it.