I have heard that some of the firewall mounted ones have had issues related to heat. Mine is still in the stock battery box in the 180 with some foam around it to take up the space. No issues with it per the previous owner for the 4 years he had it in there and it worked fine for me the hand full of times I flew it.

Jeredp wrote:

182 STOL driver wrote:

whee wrote:Interested in what people have to say. I've been doing some looking because I might need to replace the gill 25 in my Luscombe but wanted to use a odyssey. IA says not unless it is approved for the plane. Seen lots of good reviews for the PC680 in a 180; what approval method are people using?

PC

Minor modifaction per AC43.2a chapter 10 - log book entry and 337 to records .
PC 680 is motorcycle / watercraft battery where SBSJ16 is aircraft version ,same weight and size.
SBSJ16 is stc and PMA approved on PA18 and other piper models. Get rid of the wet cell battery's entirely !
Concord is OK but 20 lbs heavier than PC680 or SBSJ16 .

This is not correct. Ac 43.13 contains acceptable data, not approved data. Big difference in the world of approvals . Also, a form 337 is for major repairs/alterations. If you are calling this minor, a 337 is not needed. If you are filing a form 337, your IA must sign it and approve the aircraft for return to service based on the modification being performed as per the referenced 'approved' data. A copy of the 337 must also be submitted to the FAA. FYI, the weight change alone constitutes a major alteration.

I must disagree here, the very first paragraph of AC43-13-2b states that this data may be used as "approved" for the purposes of a "major" alteration, the criteria is there. Furthermore, it wouldn't take a too liberal interpretation of the AC to say anything done with reference to it is a "minor" alteration. Of course this determination needs to be made by an appropriately rated entity.

Subject: Acceptable Methods,
Techniques, and Practices – Aircraft
Alterations
Date: 3/3/08
Initiated by: AFS-300
AC No: 43.13-2B


1. PURPOSE. This advisory circular (AC) contains methods, techniques, and practices
acceptable to the Administrator for the inspection and alteration on non-pressurized areas of civil
aircraft of 12,500 lbs gross weight or less. This AC is for use by mechanics, repair stations, and
other certificated entities. This data generally pertains to minor alterations; however, the alteration
data herein may be used as approved data for major alterations when the AC chapter, page, and
paragraph are listed in block 8 of FAA Form 337 when the user has determined that it is:
a. Appropriate to the product being altered,
b. Directly applicable to the alteration being made, and
c. Not contrary to manufacturer’s data.

180driver wrote:Well after only 11 short months my firewall mounted Odyssey SBSJ16 battery in the skywagon let me down! I do not like it when you push the starter and it just clicks.... After hearing the touted reliability of the Odyssey I checked everything else first.... as surely it could not be my new battery! Even my 5 year old skytec starter was exhanged! Just had the battery tested by an odyssey dealer and they confirmed that it was toast! It looks like Aircraft spruce will warranty it for 2 years so that is in process. It is mounted in Burl's firewall box with heat shield, using the stock old generator on my o-470L. Has anyone else had bad luck with Odyssey reliability or is this a fluke?

It's probably a fluke.....but....you're still running a generator? That may be part of the problem if so. Those things don't charge for beans, and if you run the battery down too far, that can cause problems.

I'd definitely look into an alternator, though.

MTV

Personally never had an issue with an aviation battery unless it was charging related.

I have only used Gill and Concord and go 5-8 years commercially ( and infrequent use) and the two brands have exceeded any expectation I had relative to size, weight, serviceability and price.

Most complaints are usually solved repairing the charging system. There could be bum certified batteries but never seen an AD, SB, SDR relating to them.

180driver wrote:Well after only 11 short months my firewall mounted Odyssey SBSJ16 battery in the skywagon let me down! ....
Just had the battery tested by an odyssey dealer and they confirmed that it was toast! ... Has anyone else had bad luck with Odyssey reliability or is this a fluke?

I had exactly the same problem. Odyssey is still my first choice.

Mine failed after 60 hours / 3 months, over the course of 5 flights it went from "go" to "no".

Got it tested by the dealer, yep - toast - holding just a fraction of it's rated Amps.

Got it replaced under warranty - no questions asked. That's why they have a warranty I guess, no manufacturing process is perfect.

But I wanted to keep flying while I waited, so now I have two - bought another Odyssey for the meantime.

After 100's of batteries the only perceived failure of any brand was an "Aussie" FORD brand made in Thailand, it lasted 3 years which I thought was sad. Not to bad but, nowhere near the quality on the Yanks, I thought to myself.

I just changed out my first Odyssey this winter. 7 years old. No starting problems ever. Just didn't want to have to deal with it later. New one starts just as good, hot or cold. Just a note, 90% of my flying is in winter not summer, behind a 180hp C170.
I think the Earth-X is the next Odyssey, just waiting for a few more to get out in use.
Anyone in Los Anchorage want a 7 year old Odyssey for your sno-go, wheeler, or boat? I will give it to ya! Hurry I leave the 20th and won't be home until after moose season....
Greg

Greg,

I pulled my seven year old Odyssey as well, just because it was seven years old. That was four years ago, and it's still cranking the lawn tractor, though I no longer own it.

I've used them in probably ten different aircraft, and operate regularly in very cold temps including overnights with no battery heat, and never a problem.

Battson, which model of battery was this....SBS 16 or the 680?

MTV

mtv wrote:I pulled my seven year old Odyssey as well, just because it was seven years old. That was four years ago, and it's still cranking the lawn tractor, though I no longer own it.

Yeah I wish I had something to put this battery in. If no takers then it will go to the cabin and be back up for the boat, elect. fence, 4 wheelers, and random village pickup....

mtv wrote:Battson, which model of battery was this....SBS 16 or the 680?
MTV

680.
Unless they have different quality control standards (very possible) their specs look identical to me. Just the 680 is uncert.

180driver wrote:Well after only 11 short months my firewall mounted Odyssey SBSJ16 battery in the skywagon let me down! I do not like it when you push the starter and it just clicks.... After hearing the touted reliability of the Odyssey I checked everything else first.... as surely it could not be my new battery! Even my 5 year old skytec starter was exhanged! Just had the battery tested by an odyssey dealer and they confirmed that it was toast! It looks like Aircraft spruce will warranty it for 2 years so that is in process. It is mounted in Burl's firewall box with heat shield, using the stock old generator on my o-470L. Has anyone else had bad luck with Odyssey reliability or is this a fluke?

3 years and 4 mos since install and absolutely no problems swinging a 3 blade McCauley prop in front of a Pponk O-470-50 with the SBSJ16.

Battson wrote:

mtv wrote:Battson, which model of battery was this....SBS 16 or the 680?
MTV

680.
Unless they have different quality control standards (very possible) their specs look identical to me. Just the 680 is uncert.

The SBS has a metal jacket, but other than that, I agree, I've not seen differences in specs. I do wonder, though if there are other differences.

MTV

I'm expecting this in the UPS truck in a couple of days, going to give it a whirl and see what happens?

That looks interesting. A 3.75 pound battery would be perfect in my Avid! Post up a report on it when you get it installed.

mtv wrote:

Battson wrote:

mtv wrote:Battson, which model of battery was this....SBS 16 or the 680?
MTV

680.
Unless they have different quality control standards (very possible) their specs look identical to me. Just the 680 is uncert.

The SBS has a metal jacket, but other than that, I agree, I've not seen differences in specs. I do wonder, though if there are other differences.

MTV

There are two versions of the PC680's with different temperature specs:

PC545, PC680, PC925, PC1200 and PC1700 without metal jacket: -40°F (-40°C) to 113°F (45°C)
PC545, PC680, PC925, PC1200 and PC1700 with metal jacket: -40°F (-40°C) to 176°F (80°C)

I wouldn't want the non-jacket version under the cowl.

I'm going to go out on a limb and agree that the problem may very well be the generator. Generators put out so little juice at slow speeds. Typically a generator equipped airplane at 1000 rpm idle will be drawing from the battery, because the charge is so low, so the battery isn't getting any charge at all to speak of until the airplane begins to accelerate for take off, other than a little at the run-up.

One of the very first major changes I had done to my airplane 10 years ago was to convert it to an alternator--there are kits available for just about every engine/electrical system configuration, so they aren't a difficult install. Mine included changing the push/pull master to a split switch like newer Cessnas, and at the same time my IA converted the maze of fuse holders to a nice sub-panel of circuit breakers. Since he knew I'd be doing other electrical improvements in coming months, he recommended the conversion, and I've been pretty happy with it.

Besides upgrading the panel, which added some electrical draw items, the other major changes over the years have included HID landing/taxi lights (actually reduced the draw from the stock landing lights), wingtip strobes, tail strobe, heated pitot, heated AoA probe. Those last 2 are the really big electrical suckers. But with everything on, even at idle, the alternator has no difficulty keeping up with it.

Cary

Wow yes 11.5 lbs lighter than the SBS J-16, But its only rated 480 amps cranking vs 680 for the SBS

Cary wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb and agree that the problem may very well be the generator. Generators put out so little juice at slow speeds. Typically a generator equipped airplane at 1000 rpm idle will be drawing from the battery, because the charge is so low, so the battery isn't getting any charge at all to speak of until the airplane begins to accelerate for take off, other than a little at the run-up.

One of the very first major changes I had done to my airplane 10 years ago was to convert it to an alternator--there are kits available for just about every engine/electrical system configuration, so they aren't a difficult install. Mine included changing the push/pull master to a split switch like newer Cessnas, and at the same time my IA converted the maze of fuse holders to a nice sub-panel of circuit breakers. Since he knew I'd be doing other electrical improvements in coming months, he recommended the conversion, and I've been pretty happy with it.

Besides upgrading the panel, which added some electrical draw items, the other major changes over the years have included HID landing/taxi lights (actually reduced the draw from the stock landing lights), wingtip strobes, tail strobe, heated pitot, heated AoA probe. Those last 2 are the really big electrical suckers. But with everything on, even at idle, the alternator has no difficulty keeping up with it.

Cary

Generators suck, unless you're running a turbine..... My old Super Cub had a generator, and it literally could not keep up if I turned the landing lights on. That's hard on batteries, and starting batteries are not designed for deep cycles.

The other big advantage to alternators is that they are much lighter than generators, as in a lot, particularly the latest generation of them.

MTV

mtv wrote:
Generators suck, unless you're running a turbine..... My old Super Cub had a generator, and it literally could not keep up if I turned the landing lights on. That's hard on batteries, and starting batteries are not designed for deep cycles.

The other big advantage to alternators is that they are much lighter than generators, as in a lot, particularly the latest generation of them.

MTV

No argument here. I'm actually pretty excited to be going with an Odyssey and an alternator on my new engine, having always been a generator guy before. I asked a mechanic once about swapping out my old generator for an alternator. He replied to not bother, that alternators have higher rates of repair/ replacement, whereas generators will last forever??
-DP

denalipilot wrote:

mtv wrote:
Generators suck, unless you're running a turbine..... My old Super Cub had a generator, and it literally could not keep up if I turned the landing lights on. That's hard on batteries, and starting batteries are not designed for deep cycles.

The other big advantage to alternators is that they are much lighter than generators, as in a lot, particularly the latest generation of them.

MTV

No argument here. I'm actually pretty excited to be going with an Odyssey and an alternator on my new engine, having always been a generator guy before. I asked a mechanic once about swapping out my old generator for an alternator. He replied to not bother, that alternators have higher rates of repair/ replacement, whereas generators will last forever??
-DP

Ran a generator on a 180 for years, worked great, never replaced it. Went through 2 batteries, 3 alternators and 3 voltage regulators on the 206 in as many years. Finally got the a Plane Power alternator and Zeftronics regulator to hold up.

Generator will charge a completely dead battery. An alternator will not.

Given the choice, I'd still go alternator.