Hammer wrote:

58Skylane wrote:You’re right about the insulation and sliding door. I actually now remember a thread or discussion some time ago about sliding doors in snow/ice country. Not a good mixture. LOL

Guess it depends...I have sliding doors and it's never been a problem. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Insulation would be great, but a hangar without insulation is a whole lot nicer than no hangar at all. I was going to insulate mine, but I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth the money.

I need to know where that pic was taken. To be sure not to move there. Fun in the snow is a conflict of terms

qmdv wrote:

Hammer wrote:

58Skylane wrote:You’re right about the insulation and sliding door. I actually now remember a thread or discussion some time ago about sliding doors in snow/ice country. Not a good mixture. LOL

Guess it depends...I have sliding doors and it's never been a problem. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Insulation would be great, but a hangar without insulation is a whole lot nicer than no hangar at all. I was going to insulate mine, but I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth the money.

I need to know where that pic was taken. To be sure not to move there. Fun in the snow is a conflict of terms

Haha...that was all shoveled by hand, btw. My back still hurts.

Plan on about $35 per square foot for the structure + whatever the door costs + lease or purchase of land + utility install.

FWIW I built mine on ground we own for $14 per square foot all in but that was my two hands, a chop saw and a welder and about 7 months of weekends.

We’re 42’ wide and 40’ deep, 14’ sidewall. Minimal insulation and radiant overhead heat that’s off unless we’re working in there. That’s as tight of dimensions as I would want to go. Neighbor is 50x50. Very little additional cost and easy to have 2 planes in there....rent space to someone to help pay for the building [emoji362]

On Alaska state owned airports you lease land and own the building. You can renew lease. Once it’s done you tear it down. Ours is $1600/year for the lot.

We built it, including the door. Replacement value is insane.

The first hangar I built on the farm was wood frame with a 40' Wilson bi-fold (really nice door), but there was not enough room for error width-wise to my liking for the 182 and 185 I had at the time. The next hangar I built myself at the local airport here in Canada, it was steel construction with wood purloins 50' wide X 72' long, 16' side walls, with a 48' bi-fold on each end, it cost around $120,000 US for materials and concrete (no labor) in 2007. I leased that building out after I got rid of the 182 land plane, then eventually sold it, there is always a market for hangars. My float plane hangar is wood construction, 50' wide, 40' long, 16' high with a gravel floor (since it has a rail system) and 48' hydraulic door, I put around $70,000 US in that one in 2011. As was mentioned, in wood construction, the end of the building will need to be beefed up enough to support the door. Keep in mind on door width, if you would ever want to put on wing extensions, a 40' door is not wide enough, also consider most bi-fold doors will require a taller building in order to get the same head space as a hydraulic door.

Hammer wrote: This might be common knowledge, but it surprised me: Some airports take ownership of the hangar after the land lease expires. You can't buy the land on the airport, so you have to lease it. If the lease isn't renewed, you loose your hangar. Standard practice at many airports.....

I'm told this is a pretty standard arrangement for commercial land leases.
It's a big deal for a 10 year lease that the land owner may or may not want to renew after that 10 years is up,
but on a new 30 or 50 year lease, not so much -- at least until the last 10 years or so of the lease.

Another thing to keep in mind re land leases, most airports will have a rate escalation clause.
Ours is tied to official gov't consumer price index reports. So usually up 2-4% a year.
Not much....but compounded yearly, it really adds up after 20 years or so.

aftCG wrote:….Complexities are things like the leasing of airport land. We got jacked around quite a bit by the airport manager …..We decided in the end that buying an already built hangar was going to be WAY less headache and cost.

I'm curious if that was at KTIW?
I know the owner(s) of NW Hangars, they had a very large lease down there & have built a number of hangars.
They were building another one down by the avionics shop last summer.
Seems like airports would rather have commercial developers that can commit to a large lease and building a number of hangars.
I guess you can't blame them, but the normal guy who just wants to build one hangar for himself gets the short end of the stick.
Or no stick at all.

To bad there isn’t any private land with good access that shares the airport property line in Cody. I’m told the FAA doesn’t authorize through the fence lease applications....err...that authorizations are rare. You’d think the opposite would be better for General Aviation...would create airport friendly protection zones. When I built my hanger the state...Alaska....wanted me to build on the then under construction new airport......which included 4 lease lots... I didn’t... now pay $847 per year to lease from my property line to the taxiway. PAPM. Cheaper by a long shot in so many ways!


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m_moyle wrote:To bad there isn’t any private land with good access that shares the airport property line in Cody. I’m told the FAA doesn’t authorize through the fence lease applications....err...that authorizations are rare. You’d think the opposite would be better for General Aviation...would create airport friendly protection zones. When I built my hanger the state...Alaska....wanted me to build on the then under construction new airport......which included 4 lease lots... I didn’t... now pay $847 per year to lease from my property line to the taxiway. PAPM. Cheaper by a long shot in so many ways!


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The State of Alaska has been into the business of discouraging development on rural airports for decades. Between them and the FAA, you might get the impression they’d be happy to see general aviation disappear.

MTV

gbflyer wrote:... On Alaska state owned airports you lease land and own the building. You can renew lease. Once it’s done you tear it down. Ours is $1600/year for the lot.

Ouch! Here in MT I'm only paying $109 per year....ten cents per square foot.

Unless the number of square feet is known, none of these numbers mean much. $1600 a year might sound like a ton but not if your leasing 15k sq ft. I am paying .11 sq ft for the lots I have leased with the City of Soldotna. The State of Alaska’s rate per sq ft was the same in Homer when I looked into building hangars there. The rate seemed fine with me.

Oops.

MTV

The problem in Alaska, and some other states is the reversion arm clause. The term is negotiated at the time of lease, and at the end of the lease period, the State owns the building, and will lease it back to you. If you’re building as an income generating business, of course, you can amortize the cost of the building over the term of the lease. But if you’re building for personal use, at the end of the day, you own nothing.

And it can be really hard to impossible to get loans with such an arrangement.

Montana seems to be one of the friendlier states for hangar construction and ownership.

One of the issues in Alaska is that there is no state “Aeronautics” Division. And not a lot of interest in aviation in DOT. ANC and FAI operate independent sorta of the State. All in all, a strange setup for the flyingest State in the union.

MTV

Three years ago I built a 46x40 x12 hangar at KSMN, Salmon County airport. As I recall the costs were as follows. $1200 for gravel to grade lot,and I graded it, $21K to have the pole building framed and metal siding and roof, 8K for concrete 4" slaband 3/8 rebar, $3500 for the 42' bi-fold door that I built, $500 or so for electrical that I installed, $700 or so for 2" iso foam board for wall and door insulation and 6" of loose fill insulation in the ceiling that sit on top 7/16 osb that spans 4' centers.

Total cost about 35K
County lease is .10/ per square foot building footprint. $184
I pay property Tax on assessed value, this year $221
The lease is renewable for ever.
Lease can only be raised 10% a year

akgreg wrote:Unless the number of square feet is known, none of these numbers mean much. $1600 a year might sound like a ton but not if your leasing 15k sq ft. I am paying .11 sq ft for the lots I have leased with the City of Soldotna. The State of Alaska’s rate per sq ft was the same in Homer when I looked into building hangars there. The rate seemed fine with me.

Problem is that our lots are huge and DOT makes you pay for it all no matter how much of it you build on. Would be the same price if the hangar covered it all. If the lots are smaller on other airports then awesome. Doesn’t do me any good here.[emoji35]

Also, the worthless DOT employees end up skipping the taxiway more often than not so I get to plow it myself. But hey I’ve got a big ‘ol Cat road grader and a 10’ pusher on one of my Bobcats and I love doing their job for them when I get done with city roads.

All great information and I’ve been taking notes. Thank you very much!

Ten or eleven cents per sq ft sounds like a real deal.
At my airport, the current starting rate for a hangar pad lease is $.55 per sq ft per year,
that's for the building footprint.
Plus a consumer price index-based annual escalation clause, usually 2-3%.
Our lease (now 20 years old) was originally supposed to be 40 years, but we negotiated it up to 50.
Not sure about the newer leases, but I think they're likely 50 year also.
Reversion clause at the end of the lease.
Nothing's written in stone though--
The two older hangar pad leases on my airport were shorter (20 or 30 years?), but were extended.
IMHO the trick is to start negotiating the extension long before the end date of the lease--
before the airport starts getting that feeling of "ownership".
Personally I don't know why the airport would extend a lease that they're getting maybe $500 a month from,
vs taking ownership & getting five or six times as much in hangar rent.

A Xmas Eve day crane job, hoisting the steel beams on this county road and bridge equipment shed. 60' x 100', the contractor mentioned a number of around 250 K, "depending." Seems high, way high, I better jack my bill up a bit to match....

I didn't keep track of what it cost me to build my 40' by 28' hangar, (with a 38' w door, as it's doubtful I'll need bigger for any plane suitable for my 400' long strip, when I get it, I'll keep the Gulfstream G550 at the airport in town) It never occurred to me to keep track of the $$, I was bucks up from selling my former property, it just had to happen, so screw the expense. I did know I mainly, exclusively almost, wanted it for plane storage first and foremost, not as a catchall for other crap. I've never regretted it building that small, easy to heat being one factor. To my surprise, there is still plenty of room left over for other crap

MtCoyote wrote:Three years ago I built a 46x40 x12 hangar at KSMN, Salmon County airport. As I recall the costs were as follows. $1200 for gravel to grade lot,and I graded it, $21K to have the pole building framed and metal siding and roof, 8K for concrete 4" slaband 3/8 rebar, $3500 for the 42' bi-fold door that I built, $500 or so for electrical that I installed, $700 or so for 2" iso foam board for wall and door insulation and 6" of loose fill insulation in the ceiling that sit on top 7/16 osb that spans 4' centers.

Total cost about 35K
County lease is .10/ per square foot building footprint. $184
I pay property Tax on assessed value, this year $221
The lease is renewable for ever.
Lease can only be raised 10% a year

I think your a little out on your calculations:

40' x 12' wall = 480 square feet divided by (4x8) = 15 sheets x $40 a sheet = $600 in foam board alone for only one side wall

An empty breaker box is $100

Unless you are using all used salvage materials - Your numbers don't work

I had a 40x48x14 storage building put up last spring 3 10 wide 12 high overhead doors with openers, service door and 3 4x3 insulated windows, 6 inch facia and soffit, no insulation. 4 inch concrete in the floor and 40 x 10 approach on the end with the overhead doors. One of the local ag (pole barn) builders did it for me. Total including the building permit was $42,744 with me supplying and doing the electrical which ran about $1500 with the underground supply from my house. I was going to put a little larger building up with a Schweiss 40 x 14 bifold door but got scared off by the price, $8700 for the door delivered to Michigan plus $3500 for the installation. I may still add on my building but I won't have a bifold door. Just to give you another price point.

Tim