bat443 wrote:No need to apologize Bill. I tried to post the pdf file of the pages you would like but I am much much better at flying and fixing than using a computer. If you would like to pm me your email address I would be happy to send you the pages as an attachment or will send the complete parts manual for your airplane in digital form. It would be a non current copy as it has not been revised. Sorry I couldn't just include the pages here.

Tim

Thanks Tim, sending a PM.

Bill

Bill the manual was to large to attach to an email so I was only able to send the pages you need.

Tim

Thanks Sir....got it.

BCP'ers,

Just as a close out to this thread, and a huge thanks to Tim (Bat443) for the info...I had the rudder centering kit mentioned above removed. With Tim's help from the documentation above and my mechanic's research we were able to remove the "service kit" related to these parts. We now have them all back in a big baggie like they probably came from the factory.

Two things to point out that there was some doubt or just lack of info on in the general internet-o-sphere:

1) this is a factory Cessna kit; not an STC'd modification or aftermarket parts. It's simply an add on if you are running floats on a late model plane. It's all in the service manual.
2) Pilot report: I flew the plane for the first time yesterday and it does exactly what you'd think; much lighter on the rudders. Both in the air and MUCH lighter on the ground. Hard to quantify is the "feel" up while cruising, but much nicer. Cruising around at 135 knots its now back to a ligter feel like my last 180's. Huge improvement. I did tend to "over rudder" a little on my first landing which was noticeable but not a problem.

While not installed on all late model, float kitted 180's/185's....I can definitely see that this is the contributor to the conventional feeling that a "late model 185 has a much heavier feel and has to be man-handled." Still won't be like my '55 model 180 but I'm now back to the feel of my '75 model which I thought was a good flying airplane.

Thanks again for all the help.

Bill

You are welcome, glad it worked out and that you are happy with the outcome. Have fun.

Tim

Are you sure you didn't just buy a mall?

fiftynineSC wrote:Calling all gurus. I'm trying to understand more about the rudder aileron interconnect that came on some float kit equipped skywagons.

I've had 3 skywagons now and this is the first with system. Compared to previous... This plane is very heavy on the controls. I know many say 185's are heavy on the controls, but I'm trying to understand how much this system contributes. Lastly, if anyone has experience with removing this system and feedback on the before/after I'm all ears.

Bill

soyAnarchisto wrote:Are you sure you didn't just buy a mall?

]

I'm not touching that one. Now that you say that though...this is the first 185 I've ever seen with fabric. I should have caught that in the pre-buy.

I posted elsewhere and was directed to this thread.

I just bought a 73 185 that had a 14" XP tailwheel on it.
It was damn near impossible to taxi without being exhausted by the time I got to the runway.

I switched to a 10" Alaska Airframes wheel and it made life a bit easier but still needed far more rudder effort than my 58 180 needed.
Had heard about the rudder centering spring and was directed to this thread which is exactly what I was looking for.

The annual is due next month. I am good friends with my IA but still need to be able to direct him to information on the legality of removing the centering setup. Does anyone know where we might find it in print?
We do have a copy of the parts and service manual.

Thanks,
Tom

Tom, I think if you check the equipment list which came with your airplane when new from the factory the float kit came in two configurations, float kit "A" with the springs installed and float kit "B" with the springs stowed in the baggage compartment for installation when floats were installed. I thought I had a copy of the equipment list for the 73 185 I had owned, but couldn't find it, but if I remember correctly it states that the springs are shipped stowed. If you don't have any luck post again and I will see what I can dig up but it might take a few days.

Tim

Tim,

Thank you for the reply.
I did get a plethora of documentation with the plane but don't believe there was any equipment list.

I found the diagram in the parts manual and do believe the centering spring is still installed in mine from a picture I took during the inspection.
I see mention of the rudder centering SPRINGS, but in the diagram I see only one spring for this system, is that correct?
So the optional/removable parts are the spring, cable, and associated hardware when used as a landplane.

Any documentation that shows it being optional will be of great help for my IA.

I can't believe the previous owner had it for 20 years on wheels and never realized this was the reason for the very difficult ground handling.
The internet is a wonderful thing indeed.

Thank you again,

Tom

There are 2 rudder centering springs, one for each rudder cable, attached via short coupling cables.

When I worked for Kenmore as an A&P we would routinely remove the centering springs and cables and put them in a bag with the other float steering cables during float to wheel swaps. We considered them part of the float installation.

Not to confuse the matter but there is also a different size set of rudder STEERING springs that gets swapped out from floats to wheels as well, best to make sure you have the right set for your landplane configuration also.

Another thanks. This thread will assist me also. I'm about to put my floats on this week. When they come off again in the Fall, I'll be referring to this thread and my manuals to ensure that I'm not struggling against these springs all winter.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
Opened up the panel just above the leading edge of the stab and now see whats involved.
There seems to be actually 4 springs.
Two operate a pully mechanism and two for the centering action is that correct?
It appears you have to only remove the two cables and associated springs and leave the two light springs and pully assembly in place.
Is that correct?

It is interesting in that according to my parts manual, the system I have on my plane serial #18502242 is supposed to be installed on serial #18502566 and on.
Maybe I have a newer tail assembly on it. There was no mention in any of the logs however and from the inside it does not look as though it was replaced at any time.

Tom

If you have the inspection panels off then it should be obvious which cables go where, best not to remove the ones that go out the bottom of the tail and drive the tail wheel, even more so for the cables which go out the back and drive the rudder. The cables which go forward and up to the top of the tailcone below the vertical fin are the springs and cables in the centering system.

It was very common to install the centering system in earlier s/n, I did it three times. Very difficult to locate the holes but we had a good drawing.

Halestorm,

Thank you for the reply.
I can figure which cables it is just wondering if I should remove the pulleys also.
The plane a 73 185 came as a seaplane thus had the rudder centering system installed from the factory, perhaps not hooked up but there.
My confusion is that the system in the plane is of the newer version not the one that was supposed to be on my serial number.
In any event we are anxious to see the difference with it removed.
Unfortunately can't do much flying as our beloved President is nearby on the Vineyard so were all sorta grounded for a couple of weeks.

Removed all the stuff associated with the rudder centering mechanism and WOW what a difference. Steering is so much easier; almost like my old 180, but not quite.
I understand the rudder return springs also come in two flavors, Seaplane and Landplane.
Is there a way to tell the difference by sight or measurement? Looking at the parts manual I do not see two versions.

Tom

This past month I was able to fly my cousins 1979 Cessna 180 II with the Float A kit. Most of my 180 time is in a '55 and I have a few hours in his '66 185. The 185 has a spring loaded elevator which has no effect on how the plane handles. Which has been noted in this thread by others. This thread has been very helpful on removing some of the kit for the ailerons and rudder connect.

Here is my concern the spring loaded elevator on this plane is way to much. My guess is that we are pulling at least 20 plus pounds to get the plane to full up elevator. With the engine running on the ground. It had so much down pressure we had to trim the plane way more than normal aft trim to get he plane to fly level. This also makes it very challenging landings compared to the '55 180 and '66 185.

I am in need of the forums help on a remedy to fix this issue. Your help is greatly appreciated!


BTW, This plane is never going on floats.

I had a look at the rudder centering springs a couple weeks ago when I took the floats off and installed wheels. Looks like a trip down the tail to reach them, is that right? Little hope of reaching them through the inspection hole in the bottom of the tail. I'm thinking of just leaving them there. I'll be on Amphibs early in the spring and may get few hours on wheels before that happens.

Is there a spring on the elevator control rod that you can see looking through the rear tail bulkheads? It goes to a pulley that goes up to the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. Check the measured distance of this spring to the elevator control bolt. I've seen this clamp pulled way too tight, and I've found it not even installed. You can see a picture of it in figure 96 of the parts catalogue.. (top left corner). In the maintenance manual it gives you a measurement. In the elevator or stabilizer installation section...

Hope I might have helped.

Mike


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Thank you so much for the information. I will pass this along and let you know what I found out.