Hello All,

Its been a long while since I have visited this forum as I was busy with a very demanding job. I have since quit and become self employed and now work out of an airplane hangar at KWHP. A much needed upgrade in lifestyle. Also recently adopted a baby. So with the baby, my desire to build a 2 place tailwheel has shifted to more of a family camping plane/traveling plane. I have made the tough decision to make the family plane a nose gear to avoid the chance of a groundloop with the wife and baby. I know if it ever were to happen I'd be flying alone thereafter. I can always partner on a 2 place tailwheel with a friend. So this led me to looking at a C182 and I have a few candidates with many questions. Would add an airglass fork and larger tires all around. nothing too big likely 850s

Plane #1 Price 49K
58 C182a, just under 5k hours but engine about 350SMOH. Owner bought it on a whim as a project to get it back to annual as it sat 13 years. Owner is an A&P and said the engine was pickled properly. He was not looking to sell but responded to a post I made online looking for a C182. Its not ready to sell, but small things remain like Pitotstatic test and to set up the Garmin adsb than it will be good to go. He has flow it about 2-3 hours recently as shake down flights. I have a friend with a 61 182 helping me with advice and he has a few concerns with the pickle. First no way to ensure it was properly pickled. Just taking a guy at his word. Also he said pickled engines that sat a long while run fine for an initial period, but will develop leaks over time from dried out seals. This is my main concern. Is this common? Only other issue with this plane is the radio is down low under the pilots yoke and the instruments are spread out across the panel and no 6 pack should I ever want to get my IFR. at the moment that is not really something I want to do. Owner has been forthcoming with the pros and cons of the airplane. Over the time of getting it back to anual the only corrosion he found was in the cabin ceiling behind the headliner. He says its only surface and mild and Spar cary though is clear. No Cowl flaps and its hot as balls at KWHP most of the itme.

Plane #2 Price 52K
Is a very nice 60 with 3 bladed hartzel prop and nice center stack radios. Only panel issue is no audio panel just switches. Engine is run out around 1715 smoh. Prop is 1k SPOH. Plane TT is 3975. From what I can see plane is very clean inside and out. Just run out. O-470L overhaul would be 35 to 40K I imagine bringing the cost to high 80s unless i get the purchase price down. What would a PPonk run? I have the funds to do the overhaul, but unsure if I want to put that much money into a 61 C182. Friend with 61 is pushing me away from a straight tail to a 60 or 61 as it has te extra windows, cowl flaps and rear bulkhead change gives more room for tall passengers which is a good thing. I am 6'4, wife 6'1 and dad 6'3"

Plane #3 Price 59K
another nice 60 but not quite as nice. Panel is useable but needs some updating. Airframe looks clean but inside has a mishmash of cloth and leather seats. The good is engine is mid 300's smoh. Just received logs and need to look into damage history. i believe it did have gearbox damage in early 60s.

Plane #4 Price unsure
C182P that may come up for sale at my local airport. Was not looking for a wide body and wanted manual flaps, but both myself and wife are tall. parents too and also we are heavy. If its a fmaily plane and I still partner on a TW airplane than a widebody C182 may still do 80% of what I want. P model has a huge useful load.

I know its tough to really answer which to buy, but more want advice on above scenarios.

Plane #1 Get the straight tail I prefer and forgo cowl flaps and take a gamble on that pickled engine. Also deal with the radios in an odd place for access. Not too worried about the lack of a 6 pack.

Plane #2 Nicest of all 4. 3 bladed prop gets me a bit more ground clearance when off airport at expense of a bit of cruise. I like the clearance. Buy it for the clean airframe and bite the bullet and do an overhaul. While its expensive, I end up with an engine I know over a gamble. I am still waiting to hear if it was ever topped which may buy me a bit more time. Would a really nice 60 with a zero time engine be worth 90K. Panel would still need some updating, but id be fine to leave it as is for a while.

Plane #3 Pretty nice, but inside is a bit of a mess. Yet 59K and no overhaul leaves some cash to clean up the insides and still have money left over in relation to plane #2

Plane #4
Need to decide if I want to give up the Johnson bar flaps and lighter control for more speed, more useflul load and ore roomy.

Sorry for the long winded post, but in a bit of a pickle on decisions.

Take care and good to return to BCP.

Marc

Sounds Like you need the wide body, they are really much roomier than the pre '62 models. Electric flaps are not as sexy but you get used to them soon enough. I've even stopped forgetting to put them up after takeoff!

Also take a gander at these weight and balance envelope comparisons-https://www.wingxstol.com/html/gross.html
Unless you go Wing-X you'll be somewhat hampered in the useful load department.

Hey Marc, nice to see you back around these parts. I still use my strut mounts when I get the opportunity.

Halestorm wrote:Sounds Like you need the wide body, they are really much roomier than the pre '62 models. Electric flaps are not as sexy but you get used to them soon enough. I've even stopped forgetting to put them up after takeoff!

Also take a gander at these weight and balance envelope comparisons-https://www.wingxstol.com/html/gross.html
Unless you go Wing-X you'll be somewhat hampered in the useful load department.

I'm with what Halestorm is saying, but I might be just a little biased since I picked up a P model this week. Coming from a 185, the wide body 182 is a huge improvement in terms of passenger and pilot comfort. I'm 6'7 and have gained a few extra pounds from the Santa Claus diet due to the rona lockdown... Getting a little stick time in a 185 on Aerocets last month with another big dude like me, made me realize just how much bigger the 182 is. 4" might not sound like a lot, but it's nothing to scoff at!

One thing to point out is that the MGW combined with the higher late model Cessna empty weights leave something to be desired. My Skylane's EW is 1832 with a MGW of 2950. Running the math works out to me needing to start a diet if I want to have a four place airplane with full 75 gallon tanks. That is something to consider if you choose an earlier airplane. Like what Hale was saying, you might need to resort to Wing-X to increase your useful load.

A Skylane is a fantastic airplane and one that should easily accomplish your mission!

I bought a Bonanza a few years ago, paying a premium for a low time airframe and about 500SMOH. A year later, I had to get an overhaul including new cam and crank. That experience leaves me saying, given the choice, I’d prefer to buy a runout or a very recent overhaul. In between, you don’t really know what you’re getting.

Thank you everyone for the reply.

WingX with Sportsan Stol was on my list of mods for a 56-62 182. However, would likely do the Airglas and large tires all around plus extended baggage first and other things follow later as I own it. The widebody P model at my local airport has me intrigued. I did want to light control feel of the early models over the heavier GW and heavy feel more set up for IFR, but hard to not see the benefits of a wider fuselage and higher Useful load. I have no idea what the owner will be asking but its a very clean airfame with a semi original panel so maybe the price may not be too high. A friend of mine has been maintaining the airplane and doing the annuals for the last 5 years so at least this airplane is a known qty as far as condition goes.

I was orriginaly looking at a C175 with a 180 upgrade but that give me a UL of about 850lbs and need a bit closer to 1k and that led me to the C182 mostly.

I am very happy to be back at BCP. My previous job sucked the life out of me and I hardly had enough time to fly or do anything other than work. Even with a 1yr old I have far more time as I now work at KWHP in a hangar and will be able to fly a fair amount mid week whenever I feel like it. Even if just some pattern work around lunch time.

StuBob wrote:I bought a Bonanza a few years ago, paying a premium for a low time airframe and about 500SMOH. A year later, I had to get an overhaul including new cam and crank. That experience leaves me saying, given the choice, I’d prefer to buy a runout or a very recent overhaul. In between, you don’t really know what you’re getting.

If I go with Plane #2 than it would need an overhaul quite soon. Been reading about Pponk and curious what that would run. Also would need to know if the current 3 blade prop is on the approved list. It would be a big chunk of cash all at once, but I would end up with a known quality engine and since I am flying with a family now its likely worth the piece of mind. Corona Aircraft engines near me lists an O-470L overhaul at 27.6K, but imagine thats only for the engine and does not come with any uverhauling of Mags, carb or case machining. Anyone have any experience recently on overhauling an O-470 engine? Or PPonk purchase and how it all works?

Take care,

Marc

Zzz wrote:Hey Marc, nice to see you back around these parts. I still use my strut mounts when I get the opportunity.

Glad to hear your still using the Camera mount. Did you ever finish your Bearhawk? I had the entire Bearhawk LSA in solidworks ready to start cutting parts and then it was shelved and when I came back to it found my file folder empty. Somehow I managed to delete the contents..So much work lost... However now with being a family of 3 it wouldl not have worked well anyhow other than being my fun TW to have access to after I have a family plane.

We just did a “PPonk” on an O479R. It came to a lot more than $28K. And added a 3 blade Hartzell 8068-82”.
Runs very nice with a lot of thrust.

There is a 57 182 for sale in Alberta looks nice inside and out low hr airframe and low hr engine and prop. I would love to buy it but short of disposable cash.

David K wrote:There is a 57 182 for sale in Alberta looks nice inside and out low hr airframe and low hr engine and prop. I would love to buy it but short of disposable cash.

Is that the white and red one with Idaho Registration? If not feel free to post a link.

I was shopping for something aerobatic when I ran across a deal on my 182 about 4 years ago. Glad I decided to go this route, its been great for the family. Almost got stupid and sold it a month or two ago but changed my mind.

My engine is at TBO and I've started looking around a bit myself. From what I can tell, a typical overhaul runs 30-33k, a factory reman is about 33k, and a PPonk (XP470) is more like 38-40k. Texas Skyways also has a couple options near 40K and Western Skyways can do those as well. I decided to keep running mine since I've put about 300 hours on it and it really hasn't given me a good reason to overhaul it yet.

Unless you are landing off airport, the bigger wheels may not be something you need right away. We are based at a grass strip and the stock ones are fine 90% of the year. I'd like bigger, but really not necessary for most strips with an identifier in this area. Out west may vary. My favorite mod so far is the extended baggage, definitely worth it for family travel.

I'm not going to be much help on your plane decision with what's listed, but I will say it sounds like you would be a lot better off with a widebody.

The only thing I have to contribute is to say after 9 years I absolutely love my 1959 C-182B w/ a PPonk. Best wishes- Dave

DBI wrote:The only thing I have to contribute is to say after 9 years I absolutely love my 1959 C-182B w/ a PPonk. Best wishes- Dave

Thanks Dave. Wish I could find a 59 as its best of both worlds. Cowl Flaps and the straight tail. The is one on Controller but it mentions all lifters replaced at only 250TBO which is a bit of a red flag as it sat for a long period.

chedrick wrote:I was shopping for something aerobatic when I ran across a deal on my 182 about 4 years ago. Glad I decided to go this route, its been great for the family. Almost got stupid and sold it a month or two ago but changed my mind.

My engine is at TBO and I've started looking around a bit myself. From what I can tell, a typical overhaul runs 30-33k, a factory reman is about 33k, and a PPonk (XP470) is more like 38-40k. Texas Skyways also has a couple options near 40K and Western Skyways can do those as well. I decided to keep running mine since I've put about 300 hours on it and it really hasn't given me a good reason to overhaul it yet.

Unless you are landing off airport, the bigger wheels may not be something you need right away. We are based at a grass strip and the stock ones are fine 90% of the year. I'd like bigger, but really not necessary for most strips with an identifier in this area. Out west may vary. My favorite mod so far is the extended baggage, definitely worth it for family travel.

I'm not going to be much help on your plane decision with what's listed, but I will say it sounds like you would be a lot better off with a widebody.

Nice pic,

Hope to do the same but with one baby. Nice to see carseats fit OK.

IMO, engines are a total crapshoot. A fresh engine is unproven and may suffer an infant mortality failure, a mid time engine may have been treated poorly (likely unknowingly and unintentionally), a high time engine is high time. I looked at lots of logbooks while helping shop for a plane. Literally every plane we looked at that hadn’t had a recent overhaul was past its calendar time TBO. All of the recent overhauls were field overhauls and none of them had fully complied with the manufactures mandatory parts replacement at overhaul list.

If I were shopping for myself I’d be looking for a high time engine that was priced accordingly and plan on overhauling in the near future. A second choice would be a low to mid time engine that was done by a reputable shop and hadn’t spent a lot of time sitting...ie the engine isn’t at or past calendar time TBO.

We just installed the 0-470-50 in our plane. Lawson aviation in three rivers MI did an awesome job. And they always answer the phone. Motor was $33.5k and Hartzell 3 blade was about $12k. All in all we had close to $50 k With the light weight starter, alternator conversion. We are very happy with the performance it cruises at 150mph, 24 squared it does 160mph.

Ken

Addicted2climbing wrote:

DBI wrote:The only thing I have to contribute is to say after 9 years I absolutely love my 1959 C-182B w/ a PPonk. Best wishes- Dave

Thanks Dave. Wish I could find a 59 as its best of both worlds. Cowl Flaps and the straight tail. The is one on Controller but it mentions all lifters replaced at only 250TBO which is a bit of a red flag as it sat for a long period.

Having lifters replaced at 250hr, would be fine if recent - Pretty much an overhaul without the cylinders. I wouldn't be worried at all. The 59 182B I bought sat for 3 years in a dry hangar, at annual they found the cam/lifters spalling. Engine was split, new cam, lifters, bearings, seals etc were all replaced. Original cylinders reused. The owner put it immediately up for sale and I bought it. Hardest part of the overhaul completed, thats how I look at it.

Lots of really good responses in this thread. My .02 is to go fly a post 1962 182 (wide body) and go fly pre 62. They really do fly different - the wide body gives you more room for sure, it’s as they say - nothing comes for free which is especially true in aviation. (Flame suit on) for me personally the later model 182’s feel very nose heavy and heavier on the controls. The early models are not as nose heavy, and for me at least, have more enjoyable flight characteristics. But like anything in life if you got a sweet later model 182 you would get used to it and it would be a fantastic airplane.

The 182 is a fantastic airplane, and considering parts availability, STC availability, price points, and that it does everything well, the 182 is one of - if not the best - all around certified GA aircraft.

Oh and I see you are in California - on the engine front, give the guys at Ly-Con in Visalia a call.