BCP has been threatened with legal action for having an image copyrighted by Galen Hanselman/Fly Idaho linked and/or embedded on backcountrypilot.org

Despite not technically being in violation of copyright infringement as the images in question are not stored on BCP servers, but rather embedded from another web host, legal action has been threatened. This was the case when one of our users recently embedded(not uploaded) a photo from the Idaho Aeronautics website of the Garden Valley airport.

I do not want to have to deal with another takedown request or legal threat, so I'd ask that users respect the wishes of copyright owner Galen Hanselman and/or flyidaho.com and do not embed (or upload) his images on this site.

Thanks.

Never heard of the guy or the fly-whatzahootzits until today. I certainly won't look into the name or products either. Guess free advertising on a huge forum populated by your exact target group is something no small business owner would want.

Gump

I've got my own pictures of Garden Valley from my own camera does this also apply ? Great place where I've been several times .

I can see it now.

Galen breaks down on a remote strip somewhere when a BCP member happens to land.

Galen - "Boy am I glad to see you! I've been stuck here for days".

BCP member - "Well, I think you're going to be stuck here a few more, sayonara"

Funny thing is he lists BCP as one of his 'Likes' on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/galen.l.hanselman

What a lame-o. Penny wise and pound foolish. I had never heard of this guys name until this thread. Had he just asked for a photo credit and/or took the chance to promote his material, I probably would have purchased a copy this spring before I came out west.

This is about the Copyright Act of 1976 and Im pretty sure Zane that you are totally correct. Seems to a lawsuit would be arbitrary and capricious indeed. However... being in the right does not stop someone from starting a lawsuit, so unfortunately you did the only stand up thing and removed his images. It has been said before many times, but thanks for all you do!

Personally, I will vote with my wallet.

I am surprised. I have casually know Galen for several years. Always seemed like a good guy. I know he has been to some of the flyins. Obviously has done a lot of work to help promote backcountry flying, and I doubt that his rewards have been proportional. His books are a big help to pilots unfamiliar with Idaho/Utah, and probly the same for the other areas he has done them for.
Can't help but think there is more to the story???
Maybe he is just getting old and senile.
I think the books and maps are still an asset to have. I know ya can get by without them, but they sure do help, and save more than there cost in extra fuel runnin around to find interesting places.
Gary

He must have gotten dinged somehow by someone who's information or story made it into one of his books.

As you may have guessed, his books are compiled, not 100% original works.

I'm sure he exhaustively obtained permission from all the 100's of original writers, storytellers, newspapers, etc...

yeah right.

Useful or not, a donkey is a donkey.

shortfielder wrote:Can't help but think there is more to the story???
Maybe he is just getting old and senile.
I think the books and maps are still an asset to have. I know ya can get by without them, but they sure do help, and save more than there cost in extra fuel runnin around to find interesting places.
Gary

This may be true indeed... But with so many of us working hard to produce content for, and contribute to this community, this really rubs me the wrong way.

Situation could have been handled differently.

I agree with shortfielder. I have met Galen and always thought he was a class act. What better way to promote your product Galen, than simply ask for credit when you link a picture.

I know you are a member here Galen, please come to your senses. Many of us have bought your books and love them. This is not a good business call. Please reconsider! Or at least give us a personal response why you would threaten legal action against BCP. As much as we love your book Galen, I have to say BCP is where my loyalty is.

G'Day...Rob

There is no question that his books and airstrip documentation projects are immensely valuable. I've met him in person and he has attended the BCP fly-in in the past, he seemed like a good guy. I doubt this upsets anyone more than me.

He initially contacted me via Facebook, having seen Bryan's link to the fly-in thread, and a private chat took place in which he accused our site of copyright infringement, and threatened to sic his copyright lawyer on us, despite me trying to explain to him that the image was simply being referenced on the IDA website. He said he has given them exclusive permission to use his airstrip photos.

We did as he asked by removing the image being displayed (embedded by reference, not hosted here) but I draw the line at his suggestion that I apologize to him publicly for having displayed it and that he'll hand the matter over to his attorney. We respected his takedown request.

I don't post private message conversations for all to read as a matter of principle, as I think it's a violation of a mutual trust. In this case though I have to share the general sentiment of his message to prevent anyone else from violating this copyright he is trying to heavily enforce, apparently.

Sorry for the melodrama. I don't tolerate threats of legal action against me, something that can affect my livelihood and my family. Especially as I provide this site for free and put a lot of hard work into building it as a resource. Despite the ads and donations that cover costs, my only compensation is the approval and reception of you guys, the community. Seems too small a world to start a conversation with me using legal threats.

I'm really bummed out by this whole thing. I don't know Mr. Hanselman personally, but I have several of his products and think they are among the best resources available for the kind of flying I like to do. I also have to say that, when sending me one of his products via rush delivery so I'd have it in time for Caveman, he went above and beyond to make sure I got it and included some other materials for free.

I have no idea why he handled this situation like this, and wish he had handled it differently too--especially since the pic was just a link to something already on the web. I think Zane has handled the situation as well as can be expected under the unfortunate circumstances.

As for the rest of us, I think there's a difference between supporting Zane (which I do) and trashing Mr. Hanselman. I don't think we are advancing the purpose of backcountry aviation by making a bunch of negative comments here. It strikes me as a bit of a circular firing squad for all of us who love the backcountry, many of whom have benefited greatly from his flight guides.

I agree with the consensus this should have been handled differently. Maybe we should just leave it at that? Vote with your dollars, if you want, but I'm not sure anyone benefits from any more heat being added to this situation.

My two cents.

I draw the line at his suggestion that I apologize to him publicly for having displayed it and that he'll hand the matter over to his attorney.

That's bullshit for sure.
Just doesn't make sense. But, I guess it doesn't have to.
Sorry it went down like that.

Ranchpilot, I agree. Trashing anyone only makes this worse. I'm not suggesting a backlash against Galen. His books are awesome and I own some myself that he gave me for free a few years back when I wrote a review of Fly Utah.

I was forced to post this warning though to prevent another "copyright" episode, and it's hard to back it up without the details.

OregonMaule wrote:I know you are a member here Galen, please come to your senses... Or at least give us a personal response why you would threaten legal action against BCP.

Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. I'll weather a lot from people, but legal threats are the fastest way to have your account deactivated. I'm an open book about this.

His photo clearly had his name and copyright on them (baked in.) That's attribution, or credit, which is something I am always eager to give when using others' media.

Zzz wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:I know you are a member here Galen, please come to your senses... Or at least give us a personal response why you would threaten legal action against BCP.

Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. I'll weather a lot from people, but legal threats are the fastest way to have your account deactivated. I'm an open book about this.

His photo clearly had his name and copyright on them (baked in.) That's attribution, or credit, which is something I am always eager to give when using others' media.

Good onya!

You're a good man Z, thanks for taking the high road once again.

It's a sad deal when we start "eating our young". Everyone loses, nobody wins. Hopefully nothing more comes of this.

Zane, I think you've handled the whole thing with admirable discretion. I was only making the distinction between supporting you and venting our frustrations in ways that may not be helpful.

mountainmatt wrote:It's a sad deal when we start "eating our young".

But our young are so tender and delicious!

Well said Matt.
Zane, you DO have our respect and it's well earned and deserved, not just for this incident but for the way you handle the whole site and it's occasional political and social necessities. So, good job and thank you.