So just had a disastrous annual for the 180. My O-470 is toast!

Still trying to process the bad news and figure out the options. Factory New engine, used overhauled. Do I replace with O-470 or look at the 520 options (but then would need to replace my prop). Lots options to consider.

Anyone got any leads on lowtime engine from a trusted source?

What kind of toast? Bad compression toast or 1/4 cup of metal shavings in the filter toast?

corefile wrote:So just had a disastrous annual for the 180. My O-470 is toast!

Still trying to process the bad news and figure out the options. Factory New engine, used overhauled. Do I replace with O-470 or look at the 520 options (but then would need to replace my prop). Lots options to consider.

Anyone got any leads on lowtime engine from a trusted source?

There is toast, and then there is toast. It all depends on the engine shop. And on how much you want to spend.

Cary

Ya! You can't just say it's toast and not why? You might be able to find a salvaged engine for a descent price? Never know!

piperpainter wrote:Ya! You can't just say it's toast and not why? You might be able to find a salvaged engine for a descent price? Never know!

I say toast because the first 3 things on a long list of discrepancy is:
- 3 cylinders cracked
- Case is cracked in two place
- pitting on cam and crank

So sorry to hear that!
What year is your 180, and which engine is in it?

corefile wrote:

piperpainter wrote:Ya! You can't just say it's toast and not why? You might be able to find a salvaged engine for a descent price? Never know!

I say toast because the first 3 things on a long list of discrepancy is:
- 3 cylinders cracked
- Case is cracked in two place
- pitting on cam and crank

Yup, I think that qualifies for a “Toast” declaration.

Sorry to hear.....these things can be painful on all sorts of levels.

As to your question, the answer will largely depend on your finances, and how much of a hit you’re willing/able to tolerate.

If you can pull the weight for a PPonk engine, or one of the other O-520s, that’d be high on my list.

MTV

hotrod180 wrote:So sorry to hear that!
What year is your 180, and which engine is in it?

1962 180E, O-470-R

Yikes, that's full on open heart surgery

Still technically repairable, if you want to persevere with the existing parts or zero time it. At least you know the history of your engine, which is worth something.

- Case can be welded up in most cases
- New cam
- Crank may be survivable, or replace - you're splitting the case either way
- Three new cylinders, or more...
- Replace or repair other squawks

Of course it's going to cost almost as much as trading in for a new engine... or more depending on what you decide to do.

The main thing is getting a trustworthy shop, there are so many horror stories around about lots of shops.

Battson wrote:Still technically repairable, if you want to persevere with the existing parts or zero time it. At least you know the history of your engine, which is worth something.

- Case can be welded up in most cases
- New cam
- Crank may be survivable, or replace - you're splitting the case either way
- Three new cylinders, or more...
- Replace or repair other squawks

Of course it's going to cost almost as much as trading in for a new engine... or more depending on what you decide to do.

The main thing is getting a trustworthy shop, there are so many horror stories around about lots of shops.

That's what I was gong to suggest as well.
IF you don't have the cash on hand to overhaul the motor, you can repair the items and continue the time.
There is an argument that if you split the case, you might as well overhaul it but I think that argument is flawed when cost is a concern.
There are a LOT of items that must be replaced with new in an overhaul to include through bolts.
Several Service Bulletins become mandatory when overhauling which may add unexpected costs.
All of your accessories must be overhauled at the same time to include the right angle starter adaptor.
Don't forget baffles...
It adds up fast to do an honest overhaul.

If you do have the cash on hand, seriously consider exchanging yours with TCM for a factory reman. It will probably be close to hte price of an honest overhaul.

Repairing the case, replacing a few cylinders and throwing in new bearings and gaskets to get her flying again may be a viable alternative

corefile wrote:

piperpainter wrote:Ya! You can't just say it's toast and not why? You might be able to find a salvaged engine for a descent price? Never know!

I say toast because the first 3 things on a long list of discrepancy is:
- 3 cylinders cracked
- Case is cracked in two place
- pitting on cam and crank

Melba toast

Bagarre wrote:….If you do have the cash on hand, seriously consider exchanging yours with TCM for a factory reman. It will probably be close to hte price of an honest overhaul....

I believe Continental puts an outrageous $ value on your exchange core.
With a cracked case etc they may want to screw you out of a big chunk of it.
Might be why they price exchange engines like they do.

I'd suggest thoroughly thinking through what you're gonna do--
"act in haste, repent at leisure".
Whatever you decide to do, good luck with it.

hotrod180 wrote:

Bagarre wrote:….If you do have the cash on hand, seriously consider exchanging yours with TCM for a factory reman. It will probably be close to hte price of an honest overhaul....

I believe Continental puts an outrageous $ value on your exchange core.
With a cracked case etc they may want to screw you out of a big chunk of it.
Might be why they price exchange engines like they do.

I'd suggest thoroughly thinking through what you're gonna do--
"act in haste, repent at leisure".
Whatever you decide to do, good luck with it.

Maybe you have that backwards? Everything I’ve heard says that Continental will give a core credit for near junk, whereas field overhaulers are more picky. As you say, though, it may explain higher costs from them if they give credit for cases no one else would credit.

This thread has the potential to be educational for many. Thank you for starting it, and I hope you’ll consider regular updates. There are so many different ways to go with this one.

I’m particularly interested, because since I sold my Cub and transitioned to the C-180, I’ve asked myself several times, what will you do when the time comes....?

I barely know enough about the options to be dangerous, so maybe some additional information will come out here.

Hey does anyone need metal shavings - cause I got some extra...

That's.....wow. Yeah.... toast.
Condolences.

Ouch. My condolences...

Do you have any idea what caused this? Was the engine old or over TBO? Long time sitting? Operated improperly? Something else?

Yowza...

skiermanmike wrote:Ouch. My condolences...

Do you have any idea what caused this? Was the engine old or over TBO? Long time sitting? Operated improperly? Something else?

The engine had 640 hours smoh - done in July 2000. So it was not a spring chicken - but it was running strong - good compressions up until this annual. It never sat for a long time, but also not a ton of flying (640 hours in 19 years) I’ve only owned it for 2.5 years. I tried to run it conservatively, I’m trying to think back about improper use or not running it correctly - but don’t believe I was. I’m always asking others on how they run it - I lean aggressively - but have a EDM 700 and never saw anything terrible - temps were in the 360 - 370 range.

My last annual there was some metal in the filter - but it was non ferrous - so they suggest doing another oil check in 10 hours to see if it continued. It was clean after 10 hours on the fresh oil change.

Honestly don’t know what happened - engine was the last thing on my mind when I took it in for all this other work I was doing and was a little surprised as the bad news kept flowing in.

Anyone know of a USEABLE 520 core? I’d like to go P-Ponk route but not going to be able to swing it unless I can get creative.