motoadve wrote:Why is it ok for LSA , experimentals and ultralights to fly low and not certified planes?

58Skylane wrote:Believe it or not, I feel much safer flying in the plane at any altitude than driving my rig across country.

motoadve wrote:Cessna 182 owner, 330 hrs pilot, fly 3 or 4 times a week.
Usual flight go to a place cruise high descend ,land,
Like to practice short field landings and that was all the fun I was having.(which is fun)
2 weeks ago a friend 7,000 plus hrs told me, go have fun!

Explore ,go lower learn the terrain , fly over river beds, beaches ect,see stuff.
Im starting to do it and having lots of fun, usually 400ft agl, although yesterday low tide and long beach I was cruising at 50ft agl.
Im not zooming a place, just sightseeng and flying more like an LSA or ultralight.

Tips , things to avoid, learn and advice for this kind of flying?
Or is this just plain wrong?

akavidflyer wrote:Having a hard time believing that a bunch of "back country pilots" have issues with flying low. If the terrain allows it, I hate getting over 20'. Most of the time the wing tips are less than 6' off the ground in a turn. If your at 500 and all hell breaks loose it just gives you an extra minute to think about how bad it will hurt when you auger in.

motoadve wrote:A question about flying low.
What speeds or power settings you guys ususlly use?
High, slow, cruise?

nmflyguy wrote:Here's an old pilot's truism for you that's actually useful: The two most useless things to a pilot are altitude above you and runway behind you.

Savannah-Tom wrote: In the Alvord Desert you can see a cow turd at a quarter mile, so no need to pre-fly the area,

tom

norm wrote:

akavidflyer wrote:Having a hard time believing that a bunch of "back country pilots" have issues with flying low. If the terrain allows it, I hate getting over 20'. Most of the time the wing tips are less than 6' off the ground in a turn. If your at 500 and all hell breaks loose it just gives you an extra minute to think about how bad it will hurt when you auger in.

Over the last several decades commercial aviation has improved their accident records by leaps and bounds. Professional ops just get safer and safer.

Over the last several decades general aviation has not significantly improved its accident record and it remains mired in the **horrible**, or, at least in the **undesirable** column.

... and we GA pilots wonder why it isn't improving ...

nmflyguy wrote:

norm wrote:

akavidflyer wrote:Having a hard time believing that a bunch of "back country pilots" have issues with flying low. If the terrain allows it, I hate getting over 20'. Most of the time the wing tips are less than 6' off the ground in a turn. If your at 500 and all hell breaks loose it just gives you an extra minute to think about how bad it will hurt when you auger in.

Over the last several decades commercial aviation has improved their accident records by leaps and bounds. Professional ops just get safer and safer.

Over the last several decades general aviation has not significantly improved its accident record and it remains mired in the **horrible**, or, at least in the **undesirable** column.

... and we GA pilots wonder why it isn't improving ...

Very good point Norm. Flying safely means you and me as pilots must intelligently manage the inherent risks of flight. If one chooses to fly with little or no margin of safety above the absolute minimum to stay airborne, then you're letting the risk manage you. If you fly with no margin of safety, eventually the wheel of (mis)fortune will land on your number, and it's game over.

As to akavid's remark, i.e., "If your at 500 and all hell breaks loose it just gives you an extra minute to think about how bad it will hurt when you auger in." I reply with the following:

That extra minute could be put to very good use by a skillful and mentally prepared pilot. That minute might help you fix the problem ("switch the damn fuel selector!") ... or it might be just enough to let you select a spot or a landing technique to put down where you and your passengers might just survive, or even walk away. Your passengers might just appreciate that.

On the other hand, if you're flyin' with wingtips 6 feet above ground it only takes a fraction of a second to be converted into a smoking pile of twisted metal and flesh, with no opportunity to make a decision that might just save your life.

And as to ak's other point about his surprise that backcountry flyers would have any hesitation to fly low: well, backcountry flying is no different than any other kind of flying when it comes to managing flight risk. Sure, it has some different risk factors, with techniques and considerations that are different than flying into a busy Class B international airport or flitting around the local uncontrolled pea patch grass strip. But the idea is the same ... evaluate the risks, and then manage the risks to do what you want (fly the backcountry) and do it safely.

Savannah-Tom wrote:

motoadve wrote:A question about flying low.
What speeds or power settings you guys ususlly use?
High, slow, cruise?

I fly at normal cruise speed. This gives me the ability to trade some speed for altitude. For example, at 20' off the Santiam River, and full cruise speed, I can idle the engine and still climb above the big trees that line both sides of the river. The farm fields on both sides would make good alternative landing areas.

mountainmatt wrote:With all this talk about low flying I feel it's important to understand how to maneuver safely. Here's a great Ag ops video that demonstrates the difference between a slip and a skid, among other life saving techniques.

GumpAir wrote:{{Hang my head in shame}}

OK, no more NOE stuff for me. I realize now just how dangerous and foolhardy I've been over the past 40 years and 18,000+ accident/incident free hours. 5,000 feet AGL is my new hard deck except for take off and landings, and if I can get higher I will. Better order up some oxygen too.

Gump