As the thread title suggests, Garmin came through and allowed the DG/HSI functions of the G5 to be used in certified aircraft.
Announcement: G5 Electronic Flight Instrument Introduced as DG/HSI for Certificated Aircraft

This is a big announcement from Garmin IMO because these G5 units are a very low cost alternative to an Aspen 1000 Pro ($10,000+) and is certified for IFR flight where the Aspen 1000 VFR ($5,000) is not. It might lack some features like synthetic vision but if you are like me there is the iPad with ADS-B in for that...

Can't wait to put them into the 185 project!


Ryan

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Also... ( as per AVWEB ) keep in mind the following:

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If the G5 is installed as a rate of turn indicator, the original attitude indicator approved in the type design must remain in place, preventing the G5 from replacing all three instruments in a single aircraft. Additionally, although the G5 in AI mode can display airspeed, vertical speed and altitude information when connected to the aircraft’s pitot-static system, the G5 is not approved for use as a primary instrument for any of the pitot-static instruments.

Looks like a really hot setup. I'll bet there is a decent weight savings once you ditch the vacuum pump and the two clunky gyros.

From Garmin:

When paired with the GTN 650/750, GNS 430W/530W or non-WAAS GNS 430/530 navigators, the G5 is approved as a primary source to display vertical and lateral GPS/VOR/LOC course deviation when available, as well as groundspeed and distance to the next waypoint. In a G5 configuration that is paired with the GNC 255 or SL 30 NAV/COMM radio, the G5 is approved as a primary source to display lateral and vertical course deviation when available.

I'm guessing this means that it won't be compatible with other NAV recievers. Replacing an ILS CDI is a big bonus for those of us with IFR capability, but you'll need a Garmin receiver.

-asa

Denali wrote:. Also... ( as per AVWEB ) keep in mind the following:

. If the G5 is installed as a rate of turn indicator, the original attitude indicator approved in the type design must remain in place, preventing the G5 from replacing all three instruments in a single aircraft. Additionally, although the G5 in AI mode can display airspeed, vertical speed and altitude information when connected to the aircraft’s pitot-static system, the G5 is not approved for use as a primary instrument for any of the pitot-static instruments.

Interesting, as the rate-of-turn and slip/skid indicators are incorporated into the attitude indicator display.
IMHO it makes more sense to set up dual G5's with one as an attitude indicator and the other as a DG / HSI,
then instead of retaining the original AI, keep the standard turn coordinator for rate-of-turn info.

BTW I don't recall the exact numbers, but the face of the G5 is larger than the 3-1/8" round horizon or DG it replaces, esp in the vertical dimension. Be sure and take that into account when designing your panel, esp if you're gonna stack a pair of G5's.

FWIW I removed the artificial horizon, DG, and complete vacuum system, along with the electric turn coordinator-- 14 pounds worth.
The G5 I replaced all that with weighs 1 pound including the backup battery.

asa wrote:From Garmin:

When paired with the GTN 650/750, GNS 430W/530W or non-WAAS GNS 430/530 navigators, the G5 is approved as a primary source to display vertical and lateral GPS/VOR/LOC course deviation when available, as well as groundspeed and distance to the next waypoint. In a G5 configuration that is paired with the GNC 255 or SL 30 NAV/COMM radio, the G5 is approved as a primary source to display lateral and vertical course deviation when available.

I'm guessing this means that it won't be compatible with other NAV recievers. Replacing an ILS CDI is a big bonus for those of us with IFR capability, but you'll need a Garmin receiver.

-asa

Unfortunately it doesn't replace an ILS display, just GPS/VOR/LOC. If the thing could display glidepath/glideslope it would be super cool, ditch those stupid Century HSI once and for all!

Granted many smaller airports are losing their ILS transmitters leaving only dive and drive RNAV as an option. This unit and a 430 would get you into a lot of small airports. As long as you don't need LPV this thing will do it.

Does anyone know if the HSI on this G5 changes color to something other than magenta when a ground based station (VOR) is selected?

Yes, the G5 navy info on both the hsi page and the attitude page are green when displaying vor/loc info

Here's a link to the Avweb article.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Ga ... 724-1.html

and the text:

"Garmin has received Supplemental Type Certificate approval for use of the G5 flight instrument in the heading indicator position for over 600 aircraft types when installed with a Garmin magnetometer. “Furthering our commitment to bring affordable, safety-enhancing and certified solutions to general aviation, the G5 electronic flight instrument that was initially developed for experimental aircraft may now be used to replace a DG or HSI in certificated aircraft and represents another industry-first by Garmin,” said Carl Wolf, Garmin vice president of aviation sales and marketing. With this STC, Garmin G5 solid-state instruments can replace any of the three common gyroscopic instruments found in general aviation aircraft—the turn indicator, attitude indicator (AI) and horizontal situation indicator (DG/HSI). If the G5 is installed as a rate of turn indicator, the original attitude indicator approved in the type design must remain in place, preventing the G5 from replacing all three instruments in a single aircraft. Additionally, although the G5 in AI mode can display airspeed, vertical speed and altitude information when connected to the aircraft’s pitot-static system, the G5 is not approved for use as a primary instrument for any of the pitot-static instruments. The G5 can be used as the primary course deviation indicator in an HSI configuration when paired with an approved GPS or VHF nav radio.
The certified version of the G5 sells for $2,149, which is significantly less than the cost of a new gyroscopic instrument and comparable, in some cases, to the cost to overhaul of a failed gyroscopic instrument. The Garmin G5 3.5-inch LCD fits in a standard 3-1/8 inch instrument cutout and comes with its own ADAHRS and 4-hour backup battery. In dual G5 installations, the G5 can reconfigure in flight from HSI mode to AI mode in the event of a AI failure. A total loss of attitude information would require failure of both ADAHRS modules or failure of aircraft electrical power and both backup batteries. Garmin expects to start shipping the G5 as a DG/HSI kit with the magnetometer starting in May."

Note that use as a DG / HSI requires installation of a Garmin magnetometer.

Halestorm wrote:

asa wrote:From Garmin:

When paired with the GTN 650/750, GNS 430W/530W or non-WAAS GNS 430/530 navigators, the G5 is approved as a primary source to display vertical and lateral GPS/VOR/LOC course deviation when available, as well as groundspeed and distance to the next waypoint. In a G5 configuration that is paired with the GNC 255 or SL 30 NAV/COMM radio, the G5 is approved as a primary source to display lateral and vertical course deviation when available.

I'm guessing this means that it won't be compatible with other NAV recievers. Replacing an ILS CDI is a big bonus for those of us with IFR capability, but you'll need a Garmin receiver.

-asa

Unfortunately it doesn't replace an ILS display, just GPS/VOR/LOC. If the thing could display glidepath/glideslope it would be super cool, ditch those stupid Century HSI once and for all!

Granted many smaller airports are losing their ILS transmitters leaving only dive and drive RNAV as an option. This unit and a 430 would get you into a lot of small airports. As long as you don't need LPV this thing will do it.

Does anyone know if the HSI on this G5 changes color to something other than magenta when a ground based station (VOR) is selected?

But it says lateral AND vertical.... "the G5 is approved as a primary source to display vertical and lateral GPS/VOR/LOC course deviation when available"

I assumed when it said vertical it meant ILS, unless its limited to GPS VNAV or LNAV+V, but that is super specific. I don't actually see the indicator for vertical guidance on the display, but that's a big plus for me. Eliminating a whole CDI would be awfully nice if your goal is a low mass IFR panel.

Different HSI manufacturers use differing methods for indicating vertical guidance, but I'm not seeing any of the usual methods on the picture of the G5 in Garmin's announcement. Since it's electronic, conceivably the vertical indicator could be programmed to only appear when an ILS, LPV, or LNAV+V approach is programmed into the navigator.

Cary

It's worthy of note that the turn coordinator is not a required instrument for IFR certification.

MTV

I ordered one a few months back in the non certified version for Bushwacker 2.0 panel (rebuilding Bushwacker) from Aircraft Spruce and it is still on backorder.

mtv wrote:It's worthy of note that the turn coordinator is not a required instrument for IFR certification.

MTV

But it does require a slip/skid indicator, which is usually a part of a turn coordinator. That's why they've added slip/skid indicators to backup AIs that are installed in the hole where the turn coordinator was.

Cary

Mauleguy wrote:I ordered one a few months back in the non certified version for Bushwacker 2.0 panel (rebuilding Bushwacker) from Aircraft Spruce and it is still on backorder.

FWIW I bought mine from Pacific Coast Avionics last July, when no one else had any for sale.
Call around, apparently all distributors are not created equal.

mtv wrote: It's worthy of note that the turn coordinator is not a required instrument for IFR certification. MTV

Check 91.205 instrument & equipment requirements
(d) IFR, (3) gyroscopic rate of turn indicator, and (4) slip/skid indicator.

hotrod180 wrote:..."Garmin has received Supplemental Type Certificate approval for use of the G5 flight instrument in the heading indicator position for over 600 aircraft types when installed with a Garmin magnetometer....."
Note that use as a DG / HSI requires installation of a Garmin magnetometer .

The fact that the required magnetometer will be included with the HSI version of the G5 accountsd for the approx. $500 higher price tag for the kit. I do find it interesting that a magnetometer will be required, vs getting directional information via GPS.
The stand-alone capability of the G5 is one of the main reasons I bought one instead of a Dynon D10, which does require a magnetometer.

A friend of mine installed a Dynon, and told me getting the magnetometer dialed in was a big PITA.
I can sympathize, having attempted to dial in a few whiskey compasses myself.
Has anyone, anywhere, ever managed to correct an airplane's magnetic compass to be 100% accurate at all headings, attitudes, power settings, and electrical system configurations? Using GPS just seems to make so much more sense.

hotrod180 wrote:

mtv wrote: It's worthy of note that the turn coordinator is not a required instrument for IFR certification. MTV

Check 91.205 instrument & equipment requirements
(d) IFR, (3) gyroscopic rate of turn indicator, and (4) slip/skid indicator.

There are some exceptions to 91.205. As MTV noted, I removed the turn coordinator when I installed the RCA 2600 and inclinometer per the following FAA Guidance:
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... C91-75.pdf

hotrod180 wrote:

mtv wrote: It's worthy of note that the turn coordinator is not a required instrument for IFR certification. MTV

Check 91.205 instrument & equipment requirements
(d) IFR, (3) gyroscopic rate of turn indicator, and (4) slip/skid indicator.

Hmm, yep, you're right. That's changed in the last couple years. I obviously don't read the FARs as much as I used to.....

MTV

hotrod180 wrote [quote]I do find it interesting that a magnetometer will be required, vs getting directional information via GPS./quote]

FAA is going through a navel-gazing exercise as it struggles to integrate changing technology into old regulation. I read up on this latest change and started to check out the Garmin GMU-11 magnetometer so that my G5 would show where the nose was pointed instead of what the airplane was tracking over the ground. Then I had an epiphany and said "whoa", given the choice, which one would I rather have? Do I really care where the aircraft is pointed or would I prefer my track over ground? Track is what counts, heading is something nominal always needing correction for wind drift, unreliable in the far north, always being massaged with forecasts, charts, as you struggle to determine track over ground.

If you have the history of instruments correct and the intention of the regulations, where the aircraft is pointed was always a sloppy second to knowing what the aircraft was tracking over the ground. Nothing existed to do that, so we were stuck with compasses, stabilized compasses, flux-valve ahrs, E6-B computers and little wind drift corrections, but now....

Very good point about heading vs track. I was about to comment on the fact that GPS gives you track not heading then thought about what you said. The problem is that in any ATC enviorment you are always given a heading not a track to follow so a reliable heading indicator is necessary.