Hammer wrote:

rw2 wrote:FWIW, helmets do not increase spine injuries in the kinds of scenarios that pilots are exposed to (i.e. front impact).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21768134

Not trying to be argumentative at all, but there is significant potential for sideways forces when a wingtip catches a tree or the ground. All in all I think I'd take my chances with a helmet given the choice...any impact violent enough to break my neck with a helmet probably isn't going to go well without one, either. Overall I think a person is undoubtably safer with a helmet, though there will be times that it can work against them.

Here's one of those:

No helmet, but lots of twisting. Good, tight harness. Only injury was the seat adjustment crank poked a hole in back of one calf as my legs flailed. All in all, a pretty good conclusion.

MTV

I generally agree with MTV but I will in this case slightly disagree. The FAA up here has become very firm proponents of helmets in tandem aircraft, to the point that they recommend pretty much any helmet as superior to none. There are a couple cases where they feel the low grade DC helmet type saved a life.

Whatever helmet configuration you can wear comfortably and consistently is worth investing in.

IMHO

I won't criticize anyone who wears a helmet, regardless the activity. I choose not to, for several reasons, but that's my choice, and my noggin.

I would point out that Jughead has six or seven helmets designed and intended for specific applications....ice hockey, bicycle, motorcycle, and one specific to aviation use.

I also don't disagree with Troy that there are certainly some instances where ANY helmet might help.

Now, put a full coverage helmet on your head and go fly six hours in 100 degree heat...... That's when these things may NOT be the best "tool" in that they become extremely uncomfortable. And, yes, I've done that.....quite a few times, actually.

But, good for Jughead for bringing this up, and doing a good job talking about a subject that needs talking about.

MTV

Zzz wrote:I do think a lot of fatals are a result of BFT to the head. My nightmare is being knocked unconscious and unable to peel myself out if there's a post-crash fire starting. Then there are the accidents with so much energy you'd need inertial dampeners from the USS Enterprise to prevent your guts from liquifying from the deceleration alone.

A helmet saved my life in this exact scenario. I hit a big wire while spraying and hit the ground tumbling every direction for about 300 yards before coming to a stop upside down. I had enough time to realize I was alive before I saw flames and scrambled out, if I had been unconscious for even 20 seconds I’d be dead. Another time I had an engine failure at 50 ft agl on takeoff with a full fertilizer load and hit a small levee before flipping, got a concussion but would have been much worse without a helmet.

I’d argue broken necks in ag crashes are more the result of loose harnesses, or not wearing the shoulder harness at all. I still regularly see guys without the shoulder harness while spraying, that’s just inviting injury or death. With harnesses cinched up tight and a good helmet, you can walk away from some pretty violent crashes.

CenterHillAg wrote:

Zzz wrote:I do think a lot of fatals are a result of BFT to the head. My nightmare is being knocked unconscious and unable to peel myself out if there's a post-crash fire starting. Then there are the accidents with so much energy you'd need inertial dampeners from the USS Enterprise to prevent your guts from liquifying from the deceleration alone.

A helmet saved my life in this exact scenario. I hit a big wire while spraying and hit the ground tumbling every direction for about 300 yards before coming to a stop upside down. I had enough time to realize I was alive before I saw flames and scrambled out, if I had been unconscious for even 20 seconds I’d be dead. Another time I had an engine failure at 50 ft agl on takeoff with a full fertilizer load and hit a small levee before flipping, got a concussion but would have been much worse without a helmet.

I’d argue broken necks in ag crashes are more the result of loose harnesses, or not wearing the shoulder harness at all. I still regularly see guys without the shoulder harness while spraying, that’s just inviting injury or death. With harnesses cinched up tight and a good helmet, you can walk away from some pretty violent crashes.

Absolutely true. But consider the structure of the modern ag aircraft......massive crash cage, surrounding the pilot, and lots of design features to increase the likelihood of the pilot surviving. All for a good reason: VERY low operations, and at relatively high speeds, at least compared to the speeds we stooge around at in a Cessna or cub.

In fact, agricultural aircraft development over the years, largely due to Leland Snows designs, have become some of the safest aircraft in the world in an accident sequence. Which is a good thing, cause they do participate in some accidents.

Would that it would be practical to modify a Cessna 180 to similar standards, and still have a useful load.

MTV

If anyone wants to read some solid research on this topic take a look at the pdf below. Read the conclusions or the Exec Summay for the gist. For the full meal read pages 45-61.

http://www.northstarsurvivalsolutions.com/uploads/FSI_Report_AK.pdf.

Also, the military did a lot of research on helmets and other ppe that predates the reams of studies showing the benefits of 4 and 5 point harnesses over either lap belts or 3 point harnesses.

Comparing aircraft cockpits to modern passenger cars is a waste of brain cells. The median age of the GA fleet is 35? to 40? years. Who is driving cars that old now? Not many of us. Side airbags, neck supports to protect against whip lash, 3 point harnesses, soft plastic molded interiors, etc. are standard. Not so in any of the legacy aircraft I've flown.

Back in jr high school when I first discovered motorcycles,
the full-coverage Bell Star was the premier helmet.
Nowadays almost all mc riders wear full coverage helmets.
I'm surprised not to see similar aviation helmets offered.

-0-

This subject has been on my mind for a while now, so I finally did something about it.

For those of you who want a back country helmet and you want a good one but don't have a million dollars, here's what I just put together.



This is a Team Wendy Exfil SAR Tactical, with the Peltor adapters.

I've been a user of Peltor headsets for over 25 years. I know they look goofy and cheap but they are hands down the best passive noise reduction headsets ever, and they're more comfortable than almost everything else after a long day of flying.

I didn't want to chop up the matched pair I have in my Citabria so I looked online where you can find them cheap. In my case, eBay for $75. These were white so I ordered the white helmet shell from Team Wendy.

Peltor got out of the aviation business a long time ago apparently but they're still an industry go to supplier for passive noise protection. The black sleeves used for adjusting the head band are not compatible with the older aviation headsets but they slide off and you can use the old ones.

No tools, no butchering of anything but the old head band to get the wire out. I've got a giant head so I didn't even need to use the foam padding kit.



Once these pass a flight test I will be ordering the kit to convert them to ANR. That kit includes new gel seals and mic muff.

I've never been a fan of ANR only headsets, an opinion recently reinforced on a cross country, scud running when the batteries in a set of Bose went dead and I "sort of" wanted to hear.

Dogpilot brings up some great points one should consider in addition to helmets.

Loose stuff in cockpit: Most of us fly with some stuff in the cockpit that could easily become a projectile in an accident sequence. News flash: Velcro is not certified to restrain “stuff” in a violent accident. Not to mention all the totally unsecured stuff floating around in most cockpits.

Things attached to instrument panel/windshield columns: In photos of instrument panels, I see a lot of stuff “stuck” to the panel or windshield post that could be lethal in an accident. I had the experience of removing a Garmin GPS-90 from a good friends face after an accident in a Super Cub. He was wearing harness. I don’t know how tight they were, but the human body stretches a LOT in deceleration. I was rear ended last fall in my Honda. Air bag didn’t fire, and I was wearing harness, but I still got a fat lip from the steering wheel. No harness, I’d probably been dead.
Point is, it’s handy to stick that portable GPS or other gadgets on the instrument panel. But think what it’d be like to eat the thing in a decel.

Harnesses: I still see airplanes without shoulder harnesses. Seriously, people? I also see planes with really crappy harnesses. Purchase and install high quality harnesses....preferably inertial reels, because you may not have time or presence of mind to tighten up those non inertial harnesses in an emergency.

I have personally tested BAS Harnesses out in a Cessna, and they are in my current ride, and they’ll be in any Cessna I own in future. Not cheap, but worth every Penney when the fecal matter hits the fan.

Bottom line: Reduce the number of things that can hit your head and you may not have to test out that bike helmet....

And, the Cub pilot was wearing a helmet.....RIP.
MTV

I bought the Sky Cowboy setup five weeks ago and have about 10 hours...a nice product...I’m now very comfortable with it...the Bose fit easily...some instructions would have been nice but logic showed the way...And some telephone support...i did buy the visor..not worth it...with my glasses I get distortion....if you look at the accident reports head trauma is a common issue...and the 1956 glare shield looks more like a cheese cutter than an energy absorber....

Airdave100 wrote:I bought the Sky Cowboy setup five weeks ago and have about 10 hours...a nice product...I’m now very comfortable with it...the Bose fit easily...some instructions would have been nice but logic showed the way...And some telephone support...i did buy the visor..not worth it...with my glasses I get distortion....if you look at the accident reports head trauma is a common issue...and the 1956 glare shield looks more like a cheese cutter than an energy absorber....

Can you describe (or post a pic or three) of the helmet's interior, shell, and chin straps? The cowboy website doesn't have specs that jump out at me and say "LOOK HERE!" for more info.

I bought a Faro helmet I like, but I guess it was a short run. The wholesale supplier that carried them three or four years ago says the product is history.

PapernScissors wrote:

Airdave100 wrote:I bought the Sky Cowboy setup five weeks ago and have about 10 hours...a nice product...I’m now very comfortable with it...the Bose fit easily...some instructions would have been nice but logic showed the way...And some telephone support...i did buy the visor..not worth it...with my glasses I get distortion....if you look at the accident reports head trauma is a common issue...and the 1956 glare shield looks more like a cheese cutter than an energy absorber....

Can you describe (or post a pic or three) of the helmet's interior, shell, and chin straps? The cowboy website doesn't have specs that jump out at me and say "LOOK HERE!" for more info.

I bought a Faro helmet I like, but I guess it was a short run. The wholesale supplier that carried them three or four years ago says the product is history.

It appears that they take one of these and kit it out to take a headset.

Exactly...I said Sky Cowboy because it sounds less...well...feminine than Team Wendy...but that serves as the awe and SC provides the mid components....running the wires in such a way as to not create grind points was the time consuming part...but it’s light, the straps are mechanical and magnetic so easy on and off...

The Team Wendy helmet used by Sky Cowboy is 1.5lbs, the average full face car helmet is 4lbs+, relatively significant difference. At the velocities small airplanes would be crashing, the risk to bumping your head is much higher than breaking your neck due to a 1.5lb helmet. For reference your headset is about 1lb.

As far as helmet standards go, not having one for aviation isn't necessarily a bad thing. But a manufacturer putting the effort into meeting some standard is a good sign. There is alot of overlap between standards, but also some divergence. Some are designed to test single impacts only, others are designed for repeated impacts in the same location.

The Sky Cowboy/Team Wendy Helmet meets these standards:

-BS EN 12492:2012 Standard for Mountaineering Helmets
-BS EN 1385:2012 Standard for Whitewater Helmets
-Meets additional off-crown impact requirements of BS EN 14052:2012 European standard for high performance industrial helmets
NOTE: EN 14052 requires a low-strength chinstrap, the EXFIL® SAR is not fully certified to BS EN 14052:2012 in order to meet more rigorous chinstrap requirements of BS EN 12492:2012 and reduce the risk of losing the helmet during a fall.
-Advanced Combat Helmet (ACH) blunt impact requirements (per AR/PD 10-02 Rev A)

I'm pretty sold on the Sky Cowboy, seems like a good entry, my only deal is I don't want to commit a $1200 headset to the helmet because I'll really only be wearing it during backcountry ops; I don't want to spook pax with me helmeted up for everyday flights. We'll see, I may just buy a cheap DC headset for the helmet.

hamer wrote:The Team Wendy helmet used by Sky Cowboy is 1.5lbs, the average full face car helmet is 4lbs+, relatively significant difference. At the velocities small airplanes would be crashing, the risk to bumping your head is much higher than breaking your neck due to a 1.5lb helmet. For reference your headset is about 1lb.

As far as helmet standards go, not having one for aviation isn't necessarily a bad thing. But a manufacturer putting the effort into meeting some standard is a good sign. There is alot of overlap between standards, but also some divergence. Some are designed to test single impacts only, others are designed for repeated impacts in the same location.

The Sky Cowboy/Team Wendy Helmet meets these standards:

-BS EN 12492:2012 Standard for Mountaineering Helmets
-BS EN 1385:2012 Standard for Whitewater Helmets
-Meets additional off-crown impact requirements of BS EN 14052:2012 European standard for high performance industrial helmets
NOTE: EN 14052 requires a low-strength chinstrap, the EXFIL[emoji2400] SAR is not fully certified to BS EN 14052:2012 in order to meet more rigorous chinstrap requirements of BS EN 12492:2012 and reduce the risk of losing the helmet during a fall.
-Advanced Combat Helmet (ACH) blunt impact requirements (per AR/PD 10-02 Rev A)

I'm pretty sold on the Sky Cowboy, seems like a good entry, my only deal is I don't want to commit a $1200 headset to the helmet because I'll really only be wearing it during backcountry ops; I don't want to spook pax with me helmeted up for everyday flights. We'll see, I may just buy a cheap DC headset for the helmet.

Where are you getting that weight spec? The attached screen shot from their website shows 2.8lbs. Still pretty light.
I think if you are going to wear a helmet you need to wear it all the time so you get comfortable with it, not just when you are doing BC ops. The last thing you want when doing flying that requires the most attention is something that you are not 100% comfortable with on your head. For me its all the time or nothing. I'm hoping one of the munfacturers comes out with stirrups for the tango headset, I just enjoy the wireless setup to much and would like the same capability in the helmet I buy.

I wear helmets (3 different kinds!) for flying at work and for most of my personal flights I just wear a headset*.

I’ve personally never found switching back and forth to be distracting, but that’s just my own experiences. I know different folks have different opinions on that, and I don’t intend to refute those.

I will say that if your helmet isn’t comfortable enough to “forget” you’re wearing it, make some adjustments. I don’t believe there is such a thing as getting used to an uncomfortable helmet!


*I have a helmet for personal BC ops, I just don’t have a playground right now.

Good picture of your floatplane crash MTV. My crashes that destroyed the aircraft all benefited from military SPH-4 helmet and military wide belts and harness pulled tight, very tight. It looks like the floats are more stable than gear which always went away in mine. It was the low wing in AG and the strong belly structure in the Cobra that saved me. As far as helmets go, I was knocked out by helmet against canopy side impact in the Cobra, which had little standoff space in the front seat. The more modern lighter and smaller helmets look good to me. About a thousand times in both military helicopters and Ag airplanes my SPH-4 Micky Mouse ears hit stuff just flying around and maneuvering aggressively.

Again, Jughead did a good job presenting the value of helmets. Did you guys see the French firefighter helmets in the documentary on the Notre Dame fire? They look like knights in shinning armor.

A1Skinner wrote:Where are you getting that weight spec? The attached screen shot from their website shows 2.8lbs. Still pretty light.
I think if you are going to wear a helmet you need to wear it all the time so you get comfortable with it, not just when you are doing BC ops. The last thing you want when doing flying that requires the most attention is something that you are not 100% comfortable with on your head. For me its all the time or nothing. I'm hoping one of the munfacturers comes out with stirrups for the tango headset, I just enjoy the wireless setup to much and would like the same capability in the helmet I buy.

That weight is including the headset. If you go to the Team Wendy website and lookup the helmet they quote 1.5lbs.