Anyone else see the letter that the Division sent Swingle asking him to remove a video from YouTube? It's on the Big Tire Pilots - Backcountry Flyers page. I won't repost it here since it's got his personal info on it, but definitely thought it's a good subject of discussion.

Yep. Watching that one. What business does Pape have (from the Idaho Aviation Dept.) to enforce NFS rules (which he got wrong in the letter) and asking him to take down the video?

Personally, I think the whole thing is BS and out of line. But my opinion of Pape isn't high to begin with.


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That video is years old anyway and only has ~1700 views. Didn't Pape learn anything from Tipper Gore? Pretty upsetting that letter.

Yeah, there are lots of issues with the how and why of it all. If I had access to something other than my iPad, I'd try to post a redacted copy of the letter so people here can read it.


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My thought -- there are always a few sides to each story.

As a pilot with hard drives full of Idaho go-pro footage and a handful of vimeo postings, this was disturbing.

But, having met Mr. Pape and getting a general "GA pilots are welcome in Idaho's backcountry" vibe, I have to ask *why* he'd make such a request. Is this video somehow working against advocates' efforts to keep backcountry strips open and available for us to use? I guess if I got this letter I'd just get on the phone with him and try to understand why.

Not to get too far off the thread... I would like to have some clarification -- is a public airport (even with restricted access) a public place?

I was recently hassled because I took a picture of a Jordanian Gulfstream parked on a ramp at a public airport. I was inside the airport perimeter at the time driving next to a taxiway in my car. Given the Uzis under the raincoats, I didn't argue the point but was firmly told later by airport security that taking pictures of planes on an FBOs ramp is not permitted. Highly doubtful in my opinion but I have been wrong before.

Thanks,

Tom

Not knowing the guy, my bet is that he's getting pressure from individual activist-employees of the NFS. I've run into them myself. I'm sure that job has it's pressures and challenges like anything though and may be just trying to accommodate.

The thing I'd ding him on is the golden rule in these types of situations....Never send a letter when a phone call might accomplish the same thing. Then, you preserve all the potential positive outcomes instead of ensuring the negative ones.

59SC

One needs a filming permit in the National Park for commercial use. I assume the same for NF. I believe the question arises when that film hits YouTube, as in is it commercial? The bureaucrats say it is. I wonder if the courts have had a ruling?

This is going to get political. We should try to make sure we pick on everyone equally. [emoji1]

Here is the letter. I was able to crop off the personal content.




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Everyone and their mother posts videos on youtube that were filmed in a wilderness area: hikers, rafters, kayakers, skiers, pilots..... it is certainly not a commercial video simply because it is on youtube. Not to mention there are a boat load of other videos online showing the exact same thing. I wonder if the issue is that they are interpreting it as advertising for his business because the Ohio Bush Planes logo is used. Some could interpret that as commercial video, which may require a permit.

Grassstrippilot wrote:Here is the letter. I was able to crop off the personal content.




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Every time someone posts a picture using Tapatalk, I just get a box that says "image" on it. Any idea why, or how to change that?

Cary

chrispo wrote:My thought -- there are always a few sides to each story.

As a pilot with hard drives full of Idaho go-pro footage and a handful of vimeo postings, this was disturbing.

But, having met Mr. Pape and getting a general "GA pilots are welcome in Idaho's backcountry" vibe.

Check out the Idaho Aviation Associations April newsletter, Kerry Requa has quite a bit to say against Mr.
Pape. He lays out a pretty good reason not to trust Pape.

I guess we'll all have to turn our GoPro's off when we cross the border into Idaho........NOT!

Too beautiful a state to not film for our personal use. That's the rub, it's personal use.

That is until Grasstrippilot ends up with his adventures playing at Sundance. What ya think Cory?

Rich

I know of the prohibition the USFS, NPS, USFWS, and other agencies have against using images of public lands for commercial purposes. I guess I don't understand the connection between a Youtube or Vimeo video (which isn't produced to promoting a business or income producing activity) and this commercial prohibition. The Sierra Club, Wilderness Society, and other advocacy groups take pictures of specific objects or landscapes that I've seen in their promotional material. A video for personal enjoyment or public enjoyment doesn't seem too different. Maybe someone with a better understanding of the law might chime in if so moved?

PittsDriver wrote:[
Check out the Idaho Aviation Associations April newsletter, Kerry Requa has quite a bit to say against Mr.
Pape. He lays out a pretty good reason not to trust Pape.

Can you post a copy of this letter?

PittsDriver wrote:

chrispo wrote:My thought -- there are always a few sides to each story.

As a pilot with hard drives full of Idaho go-pro footage and a handful of vimeo postings, this was disturbing.

But, having met Mr. Pape and getting a general "GA pilots are welcome in Idaho's backcountry" vibe.

Check out the Idaho Aviation Associations April newsletter, Kerry Requa has quite a bit to say against Mr.
Pape. He lays out a pretty good reason not to trust Pape.

I guess we'll all have to turn our GoPro's off when we cross the border into Idaho........NOT!

Too beautiful a state to not film for our personal use. That's the rub, it's personal use.

That is until Grasstrippilot ends up with his adventures playing at Sundance. What ya think Cory?

Rich

I won't have to worry about that! I'm not that good![emoji1]


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SixTwoLeemer wrote:

PittsDriver wrote:[
Check out the Idaho Aviation Associations April newsletter, Kerry Requa has quite a bit to say against Mr.
Pape. He lays out a pretty good reason not to trust Pape.

Can you post a copy of this letter?

I suspect they could have an issue with me posting the copy of their newsletter. Here is a link that will get you to their archive though.

https://idahoaviation.com/newsletters.php

It's April 2017, on page 4

Rich

I was recently hassled because I took a picture of a Jordanian Gulfstream parked on a ramp at a public airport. I was inside the airport perimeter at the time driving next to a taxiway in my car. Given the Uzis under the raincoats, I didn't argue the point but was firmly told later by airport security that taking pictures of planes on an FBOs ramp is not permitted. Highly doubtful in my opinion but I have been wrong before.

Really makes you wonder what was going on. Does Oshkosh allow pictures any more?

Can't figure out what's causing the problem. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3p24EOPkjoE&sns=em

There is the aerial attack of the Marmot's habitat, or the pouring of the gasoline from the Gerry can into the tank in the wing. Either could upset an activist I suppose.

Like it or not, access by motorized means into these areas is on thin ice. I hate to say shrivel from the threat imposed by activists, but I would suggest winning by the easiest, least hostile means. That might require careful thought into editing videos like this one.