The first flying I ever did was in a 1939 J3 Cub. They are some of my strongest memories.

Back then, the J3 was a mighty machine… a door opener and a dream fulfiller.

It provided exhilaration and taught respect, but most of all, it exposed possibility.

1995-2010 was low wings and One Stupidy Two’s; 2008, I found my home.

Today, I find myself a decade and a half into a Cessna tail drag journey. A journey that has brought me to a couple different continents and offered life time friendships with folks from all walks of life.

It began with a crushing denied Skywagon loan that slid me into a 170B modification, which led to a 6500 hr odyssey with an H model 180. AP and CFI found me ignoring a “real” job and walked me ham fisting my way in and around 170/180/185s for a living. Not where I thought I’d be when I left art school…

The tickets opened up some cool doors, one of which was the privilege to fly our county fire patrol bird. Aside from the heavy fire radios, the bird was double bone stock, and provided hours of low and slow joy. It was a PA-18-150.

There was nothing like oofin along at 500 agl, smelling the fresh summer grass clippings, and sneaking up on unsuspecting home owners burning brush out behind their New England McMansions.

A couple of slow circles brandishing the enormous underwing “FIRE PATROL” always sent the un-permitted dad scrambling for his garden hose, looking up and waving apologetically as I looked down thru my tinted visor chuckling.

Unfortunately, one selfish knucklehead ruined it all and flew the Cub past his skill onto the gusty crosswind runway only to find himself hanging from the hooker. The bird was totaled.

Bought new in 1957 and babied by a reverent cadre of tailwheel pilots, the Cub, along with the program were gone like the Schwinn; we’ll go with a drone the Chief said, and my Supercub driving days were over. I miss it.

I’ve been lucky with the Skywagons and 170Bs. I’ve gotten a chance to fly and ferry most models, been fortunate enough to install most of the available mods, and been shown humility time and time again by the knowledge, expertise, and wisdom of the gaggle of lunatics that this community brushes me up against. I’m grateful.

At any rate… my boy will be 9 this summer, and I’ve been mulling over some new paths to explore with him at my side. Well past Gladwell’s 10k rule, I think I might just have enough building chops to take a stab at an experimental… something he can feel like he built, something he can solo, and for sure, something he can get his ticket in at 16.

Of course my beginnings with the J3, and then the summers in the 18 sealed the deal… it had to be a PA-18… and after 15 years of certified, the allure of an experimental is a bit hard to overcome.

Build a Supercub; Hmmmm.

Anyway… Im typing this on the smoker up to AK for the Airman Show… but perhaps a quick detour.

Tomorrow I’m popping over to meet with Jay at Javron to see just what he’s all about, and, God willing and the creek don’t rise, may climb into a padded cell and begin a low n’ slow odyssey building a Supercub.

Of course a trip to MN wouldn't be right without seeing Zzz, so tomorrow, he’ll be my service animal as I throw my balls over my shoulder and charge into the fire

Here’s the point of my post:

Cub talk is pretty thin, if non-existent here on BCP. Not really sure why as I know there is a vast wealth of knowledge and experience sleeping under the hood.

I think I generally know the broad strokes of where I’d like to go with the project: no rotax, no Palmer Star-link wireless kits or baggage compartments filled with molle panels and Amazon medical kits… I want classic styling, and proven simplicity. A pre flat brimmed girl next door…

That said, I know that I don’t know and am eager to learn; so many awesome choices to be mulled over.

I’ve settled on (and have) the engine: Wide deck O-320, but other than that, I’m reveling in the choices.

Curious as to everyones thoughts? I already have a highly modified buggy, so I don't want no monster basher. Simple, practical, light (but not too light.)

Of course I’ve been all over Bill Rusk’s build, and got to see it in person that first year at the Airman Show.

Anyway, might be a fun way to waste some cash rather than invest it for my future…

Curious: Where would you go?

See ya at brekkie.

I love Cubs, but I think a lot of people try to make them into something they are not. In my opinion the wide deck 0-320 is the perfect engine for the cub. Since you already have the engine selection down, my suggestion would be stock round tip wings, a couple round instruments on the panel and a simple radio. After that I would just suggest a lot of 100LL and warm summer evenings.

Just my two cents

A certified cub is most likely cheaper than a experimental one in todays world having an IA license. I am building a Javron cub and it is a excellent product. My mistake was having a bad case of MOREBETTERDISEASE!! I would have been done a year ago if I had not found a way to try modifying most every part of the plane. You can get a great frame with all the right mods and parts with all the welding including tabs and assembled wings out the door. You will be driving by my house in Chugiak on the way to and from Palmer. I plan on going both days but (might fly on the third) but I will PM you my number give me a call and see if we can work out a stop by.
DENNY

As far as what mods you want on a Super Cub it really depends on the mission.
Local 1-2 hr flights with passenger, basic flight training: a basic stock cub will work 150 hp with one of the new props, bungees and great for training because they show your mistakes. Otherwise I would get Acme/airframes shocks. Airframes 3 leaf tail spring 3200 tailwheel, no need for bushwheels unless you need flotation for beaches/soft wet strips.
,
Local Camping/fly in trips with two people 2-5 days: Add upper baggage and extended baggage with big baggage doors, full interior. Consider 160 hp

Long trips, Camping/fly in 2 people 1 week of gear, Hunting/fishing trips: Add belly pod, Big tanks, consider 0360.

Alaska bush/ heavy flying/short strips/: Add Keller flaps, extended wings/ailerons, 3 in gear, Baby bushwheel, 31 in Bushwheels, Keep round wings if you are going to be in big wind country.

Panel for all: Full engine monitoring EGT/CHT, Oil pressure/temp, Fuel flow, Volts, Amps, Carb temp. Rest Glass or Steam flight instruments. GPS mounted primarily above the dash or 50/50 for best view.

I would avoid high compression pistons due to possible fuel issues down the road. Electronic ignition with advanced timing due to increased CHT'S, Fancy shocked tailwheel due to loss of AOA on takeoff.

No Right or Wrong just things to consider.
DENNY

A couple of the guys at our strip just finished up a Javron Cub last year. I believe it took them roughly two years. It’s nice. I have been in it once and was impressed. I think they put a IO 360 in it. It’s covered in Oratex which came out great. It also has a belly pod. I think they chronicled the build at supercub.org . Might be worth checking out. Clearly I don’t have any real insight, but from the outside it would look like a great choice.

Pete

I would look to build it simply, quickly, get it out the door and in the air a soon as possible. I don't expect that to be an issue for you Bigrenna but many of these project develop "hangeritis", in the worst cases even get sold off before they ever completed by the original builder. A project like this has long been a desire of mine to do, for my "skills & abilities" I would look for a pre-fab fuselage. The time required to fabricate a jig, all the cutting, fitting, trimming and welding is well above my paygrade. Or a smaller Piper donor fuselage that can be lengthened to the size of a Cub, the advantage I see is a bit more shoulder room if configured as tandem seating.

Nothing teaches "stick & rudder" better than a stick and rudder airplane. A Cub-esque airframe is a simple, fine example of just that and an airframe that can be "evolved" as the skills develop. If it will be a teaching airplane I would try to incorporate a couple of rear seat instruments, a simple "slip & skid", altimeter and maybe one of those combined 3 in 1 engine gauges.

If you want a fun, light airplane look at a Legend Cub. I flew Brown's Seaplanes' cubs on floats this winter.... their Legend Cub was a real pleasure to fly and performed as well or better than the Supercubs sitting next to it. For what you described it might be worth a look. They offer several levels of "bushyness" so you could probably find one that fits your mission.

I previously owned two J-3’s and have had our current ’54 PA-18A-135 for coming up on 25 years. I only bought the PA-18 as I required its capabilities for niche work that our 180H could not do while accomplishing survey work in Alaska. I let the mission drive the mods. I required fuel (belly tank), I required legal weight carrying ability (Wip 2K upgross), I required power to take me over 10,000’ with a load (Penn Yan O-360 STC).

Maintaining and operating multiple working aircraft I do not have the time or resources to chase every current fad, which is an easy rathole to enter when discussing “Cubs”. The stock Cub, J-3 or PA-18, does exactly what it was designed to do. If by chance one requires something a bit extra, (such as my requirements stated above), there are legal methods to accomplish it.

I am a PIPER CUB fan. I have zero interest in the Cub clones as my airplanes work, thus must be certified. I have been instructing floats, wheels and skis since 1985, in my opinion the J-3 and PA-18 are among the best platforms for teaching the required foundation of skills required for one to be an aviator.

TR

I went down a similar path several years ago visiting both Javron and Legend in Texas. Both are excellent options. Not really sure why, but was leaning a bit towards the Legend, even though being in northern MN, Jay is 'right down the road'. Other issues in life came up and I ended up going a different direction. Totally happy with what I have, but still have a soft spot for SC types. Got my first ride in a SC on floats when I was 8yo and have wanted one ever since. After many years of flying though, I sure wouldn't want one as my only plane, too slow.

I friend near me recently completed his Javron powered by the Titan O-340. Awesome performer. He built it fairly basic so it is light and nimble. He lives near Bemidji, MN, which may a bit out of your way going to Brainard.

If you end up looking for an unfinished one, a guy just sent me a message a week or two ago about wanting to sell his Javron project as he is looking for a Murphy Rebel, of which I have a couple. If I remember, he is in WA. If you have any interest, I can forward you his info.

Enjoy your visit to MN.

I’ll be really interested to see your build. I feel your first 170 build was hugely innovative and influential- I know I’ve copied a lot from it.
I met Jay at Osh and although I made it clear I wasn’t buying anything he was very generous with his time and knowledge. I was very impressed with his kit.

A few thoughts, since you'd like your son involved with the build, simple is better. The more complicated the build, the more the attention span will wander.

For the mission described, I'd order a Javron with:

O-320 wide deck and LW accesories. (you already have - the perfect Cub engine)
Borer 82/41 for simplicity and easy hand propping (delete nose cone)
Stock wings (add VG's)
HD stock gear length with shocks (get rid of bungees and take advantage of better tech - skip cables)
Fuel steps or Atlee step and skip stirrup style
Basic instruments (although consider what is needed to take a checkride for the PPL if concerned about that)
Float fittings and Lifting rings (because)
Decent memory foam seat cushions with rear pocket
Carbon floorboards (hold up better over time, my wood ones warped badly)
Consider overhead flap handle. (This keeps the stick travel issue when flaps deployed a non-factor. You could also just shorten the flap handle and call it good)
26 Goodyears for PPL training and then go 31 ABW.
Consider Oratex fabric system to save on paint fumes, drying, orange peeling, spray booth, hassle etc...
Flip up left side window for better picture taking (less turbulent vs right door open)
Extended baggage (Atlee stock style is pretty easy actually)
Metal baggage headliner
Inertial reel seatbelts
24 gallon fuel tanks (18 gallon is often just not enough)
Fuel on both tanks
Make fuel system compatible with ethanol to run standard car gas
Put offroad LED lights on the gear legs and skip wing mounted LL
Put glass on the bottom door (helps with vis for the rear seater in particular and I think cuts down on passenger air sickness potential, anecdotal)
Consider rear seat heat when carrying the female of the species

(Consider a complete boot cowl and pre-formed cowl cheeks to help take a week or two off of construction time. Skip the top cowl vent and it's weird serpentine operating cable)

User23 wrote:…I think a lot of people try to make them into something they are not.

My thoughts exactly… O-320 is the current plan.

DENNY wrote:…My mistake was having a bad case of MOREBETTERDISEASE!!

This. LOL

Been to the rodeo far too many times not to have read the warning sign at the door.

I’ll be trying to avoid this pitfall.

BTW… fun to catch up on the phone. Hopefully we’ll see each other at the show

G-

pburns wrote:…I think they chronicled the build at supercub.org . Might be worth checking out…

Thx Pete.

I’ve been lurking about on SC for a long while. Certainly lots of good info over there.

The irony is so many of those folks lurk over here. It’s my hope that we get a nice robust dialogue here as well!

Having just finished my Bearhawk build I can tell you you are in for a great time…. Especially with your skill set.

I know you have the 320, but a 360 is just awesome if you can make that happen. Get a GA prop, I love my Sensenich 82” GA. I have already adjusted it twice to get my full throttle rpm’s perfect.

A Glass panel is GREAT, but with a sentry and an iPad you are really good to go. As Denny stated, get a full EMS.

Unless you are doing silly things, the GY 26’s take you where you need to go.

I am a side by side guy, does Javron build a 4 place cub? A buddy has an Ellis 4 place and loves it.

Keep us informed, looking forward to your decisions

Mapleflt wrote:I would look to build it simply, quickly, get it out the door and in the air a soon as possible…

I’ll most likely be taking the opposite tack. I sorta feel like I’ve nothing to prove, and really have no agenda. Moreover, as I get a bit older, I’m more and more interested in taking my time and enjoying the journey.

This experiment will allow me to expand my knowledge base, meet a whole group of new and interesting folks, and present completely new opportunities.

That said, the compelling factor with the Javron choice is it’s ease. As far as I can figure, I’ll be able to pick up a finished kit. No assembling ribs, tramming wings, cutting or welding etc…

Compared to what I’m used to, this seems like a pretty simple and easy stroll.

We’ll see!

Utah-Jay wrote:…but a 360 is just awesome…

…with a sentry and an iPad you are really good to go…


…the GY 26’s take you where you need to go….

…I am a side by side guy,..

Agree. 360 is nice, but I donn’t need the power, not the weight. 160hp (I think) will suffice just fine.

Others disagree, but I’ve always felt that the iPad is for the hotel. More robust and dedicated solutions like the 760 are where I lay my trust.

RE: tires, I’ll most likely handle it like the Wagon. 8.5x6 dessers for training, and 31”s for play. 26’s seem like a a non-committal tire. Neither Papa bear nor Junyer bear.

We’ll see…

Bigrenna wrote:

Mapleflt wrote:I would look to build it simply, quickly, get it out the door and in the air a soon as possible…

I’ll most likely be taking the opposite tack. I sorta feel like I’ve nothing to prove, and really have no agenda. Moreover, as I get a bit older, I’m more and more interested in taking my time and enjoying the journey.

This experiment will allow me to expand my knowledge base, meet a whole group of new and interesting folks, and present completely new opportunities.

That said, the compelling factor with the Javron choice is it’s ease. As far as I can figure, I’ll be able to pick up a finished kit. No assembling ribs, tramming wings, cutting or welding etc…

Compared to what I’m used to, this seems like a pretty simple and easy stroll.

We’ll see!

Sorry to have implied anything, yes the pace is clearly yours to set in the process.

kg wrote:…look at a Legend Cub

I gave it a hard look down at S N F… just not for me. As as said at the onset, I’m inclined to stay away from the flat-brim, and that Legend seems too post modern fancy for me.

For reference, I’m OG Gen X, and classic roots are a defining factor.

I kinda like the idea of building a certified cub without the yoke of the certification. Know what I mean??

And for FWIW, I sort of the feel like the Be My Wingman give-away and glossy ad campaign is baked into the Legend price tag. When I inquired with Ledgend, the Javron kit was half the price… not to mention if you’ve met Jay in person, he’s the sort of guy you want to work with… didn’t get that vibe at the Legend booth.

But what do I know… I’m enjoying a new found NOOB status.