Good day all,

Just seen the LED strobe/nav topic.

The landing and taxi lights in our 182P do not seem to last very long. Seems like every 3-6 months with very little usage (lights on)..they burnout.

Is this the norm? They are just the regular halogen part # 4509 bulbs.

Been looking at the LED lights. They seem to be about $300 each. Anyone have any experience with them. Do they really last for the hours they claim? Are they any brighter.

Thanks

Macdon221

Wow, you got more time out of your 4509's than I did.

I have the AERO LED lights, I highly recommend them, highly! The AERO LED's will last longer than your airplane, you will never have to buy another 4509 and take the time to replace them, they are cheaper in the long run. Now the best part is you can leave them on constantly for anti collision recognition, this is HUGE. You will also have them at night when you really need them, no more surprises. They draw very little power so they will not over tax your electrical system. Worth every penny! Buy em, install em, and LEAVE EM ON! Help me and others see you. Yes, they are bright.

Ok, off my "operation lights on" soap box...

G44

I've been thinking about trying these, a little over $100.00.
http://www.grote.com/prodcat/attachments/Trilliant36InfoSheet.pdf

Terry wrote:I've been thinking about trying these, a little over $100.00.
http://www.grote.com/prodcat/attachments/Trilliant36InfoSheet.pdf

Ya know Terry I bought a pair of those to put on the back of one of my tractors, I got to looking at them and put them side-by-side with a couple of the GE bulbs that we use in our wings. There pretty close to the same size.

The AERO LED's are drop in replacement and you can get the bulbs that flash, no complicated box to install. If I understand correctly, you turn light on then off and then back on within a few seconds and then it is pulsing. I have pulsing LED lights but they came with a pulsing unit or it was switched for pulsing from the factory. AERO LED Sun Spot 36 which is the drop in replacement is 1,500 lumens. Sun Spot 36LX is standard light, Sun Spot 36HX is the pulsing or what they refer to it as "wig-wag". These are PMA'ed lights.

G44

Glidergeek wrote:

Terry wrote:I've been thinking about trying these, a little over $100.00.
http://www.grote.com/prodcat/attachments/Trilliant36InfoSheet.pdf

Ya know Terry I bought a pair of those to put on the back of one of my tractors, I got to looking at them and put them side-by-side with a couple of the GE bulbs that we use in our wings. There pretty close to the same size.

Are they as bright as they claim?
They should fit, PAR36 is the physical size and is what's in our Cessna's.
They are tough!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z82iDigpI9s&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dz82iDigpI9s

these are a little cheaper

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... par362.php

I installed a pair of the Whelan Parmetheus bulbs when they first came out.....Whelan had a special at the AK Airmens show.

They are fantastic, period. The Parmetheus comes in two flavors: Landing and Taxi, with significant difference in beam width and focus. Get one of each if you do much night flight.

If you're mostly looking for daytime recognition, go with two of the Taxi lights...

Great additions in either case, and as Kurt says, you'll never replace another bulb.

MTV

Terry wrote:

Glidergeek wrote:

Terry wrote:I've been thinking about trying these, a little over $100.00.
http://www.grote.com/prodcat/attachments/Trilliant36InfoSheet.pdf

Ya know Terry I bought a pair of those to put on the back of one of my tractors, I got to looking at them and put them side-by-side with a couple of the GE bulbs that we use in our wings. There pretty close to the same size.

Are they as bright as they claim?
They should fit, PAR36 is the physical size and is what's in our Cessna's.
They are tough!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z82iDigpI9s&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dz82iDigpI9s

I set up and used jumpers next to the hangar and they seemed the same as a regular bulb maybe a little brighter.

mtv wrote:...They are fantastic, period. The Parmetheus comes in two flavors: Landing and Taxi, with significant difference in beam width and focus...

NOTE: EATING CROW. edited because the problem is not the Whelen bulb but rather the Cessna design.

I'm afraid my experience doesn't jive with Mike's. Oh, Whelen led's are great, and extremely bright, when they work. [Actually it most likely will since I was chasing a red herring] I have both these lights in the nose of my 185. For a short time they were fine, but then the taxi light started popping the circuit breaker as soon as I started to taxi. We replaced the wiring as it was old and cracked, even though there was no indication of a short. Then both my A&P/IA and myself pulled the cowling a couple of times and traced the wiring, no problems. We checked the pins and connector at the harness, and the wiring through the firewall and to the switch. Of course on the ground with the engine off it worked fine.

I rapped on the bulb with it on, no problems. Finally I gently flexed the lower cowling (upper cowling was off) and pop! This was 100% repeatable. Obviously a bad bulb [I thought]. Called Spruce and found out I had to return the bulb to Whelen directly for warranty. I knew that would take at least a month so I ordered another one from Spruce and installed it - problem solved [We must have replaced the scat hose at the same time which masked the real problem]. I shipped the defective bulb [not defective] off to Whelen with copies of the original receipt, the second replacement receipt, and a detailed letter outlining the problem, that cause, and the solution.

Whelen of course could not duplicate the problem. I wasn't surprised by this as they had no cowling to place the bulb in. I had a half dozen phone calls with their tech people explaining the problem, how I recreated it 100% of the time, and that a new bulb fixed the problem [or so I thought]. Obviously it's the bulb [I was wrong]. I told them not to bother sending it back to me, just to throw it away. They sent it anyway marketed inspected and serviceable. I tossed it in the trash [apparently a waste on my part of $250, not the first time I've done something stupid]. Proper customer service would have been to send me a new bulb [nope, they did right]. During our phone conversations I also mentioned that both the taxi and landing light have condensation on the inside of the lenses after use. They said that was normal and not to worry about it. Doesn't seem right to me but whatever.

But the story doesn't stop there. A few months in and the new taxi light is now displaying a totally new behavior, exactly the opposite of before. Now it pops the circuit breaker if the engine is running and the airplane is NOT moving. So I can't turn the light on until I'm rolling, then it works fine throughout the entire duration of taxi, takeoff, the flight, landing and taxiing. My best guess to this behavior is maybe heat related? As long as the engine is off, or the plane is moving and there is sufficient airflow through the cowling either from forward movement or prop wash, the light works fine. [Nope, I was wrong. The problem is the Cessna design, routing the heater air intake hose in such a way that it's nearly impossible to keep it from contacting the back of the light, rubbing through to the wire, and then shorting out the taxi light circuit]

Apologies to Whelen

Thanks guys for the info so far.

Any more experience with these LED's?

I guess the question is AeroLED or Whelen?


Thanks


Macdon221

Since it hasn't come up yet: When I researched this I couldn't find any LEDs that were as bright as the bulbs they were replacing. If you want bright and long lasting, HIDs are the way to go. They won't be plug and play, but might be a good option anyway.

macdon221 wrote:Thanks guys for the info so far.

Any more experience with these LED's?

I guess the question is AeroLED or Whelen?


Thanks


Macdon221

Another way to phrase that question is, "How much light output do you want?"

AeroLeds are more expensive, but *WAY* brighter! With a strong emphasis on "way". We did a test in a dark Idaho canyon meadow (Root Ranch) at the Husky fly-in. Side-by-side the AeroLed blows away the Whelen Parmetheus.

There are a lot of options in LED lighting and the prices keep coming down while light output increases. Many offerings do not include data that makes it easy to compare their lights. The two specs to look at are power consumed (.i.e watts, obtained by multiplying current in amps by voltage - - e.g. the Grote light mentioned earlier is 1.4 amps at 12 volts so the power is about 17 watts. For comparison, my Husky has 4 or the AeroLeds at 48 watts each!). Another good yardstick is the light output in lumens - though not all mfgs are forthcoming with this spec.

bumper

OK...

Great...really learning alot here.

Spoke to Whelen.....they sell an LED for Taxi (PLED1T) and one for Landing(PLED1L). The customer service agent said that the landing LED is 39,000 lumens and the Taxi LED is only 12,000 Lumens.

Is there a reason why you would not put the brighter LED (landing) in both the landing and taxi light positions??


Thanks

Macdon221

macdon221 wrote:The customer service agent said that the landing LED is 39,000 lumens

That seems impossibly high.

For example: This LED light only puts out 15,000 lumens, costs 2,500 and is a custom order device.

http://gizmodo.com/5880609/this-15000-l ... ght-to-day

The customer service has Lumens and Candela (candle power) mixed up. The agent was probably referring to Candela. The AERO LED's are 1,500 Lumens and 50,000 candela. Aero LED also makes a taxi light version of their Sun Spot 36 landing lights, it is 15,000 candela but has a much wider beam. I have 4 AERO LED's in my Husky, 2 landing and 2 taxi and I have also purchased 2 more that were installed in friends airplanes, all 6 bulbs are performing perfectly.

macdon221 wrote:OK...

Great...really learning alot here.

Spoke to Whelen.....they sell an LED for Taxi (PLED1T) and one for Landing(PLED1L). The customer service agent said that the landing LED is 39,000 lumens and the Taxi LED is only 12,000 Lumens.

Is there a reason why you would not put the brighter LED (landing) in both the landing and taxi light positions??


Thanks

Macdon221

Taxi lights have a much wider beam than landing lights and what they are illuminating is closer.....so a very different beam pattern.

I've operated two planes with the Whelan LEDs, and no problems with a lot of hours lights on full time.

I will say that putting the landing lights in the cowling of the 185 was the singularly dumbest thing Cessna ever did. What a terrible place for a light bulb and wiring of any kind!

MTV

MTV is right on . . I'll add:

On my Husky, I have an AeroLed landing light and taxi light on each wing. The landing lights are for distance and good illumination straight ahead. The beam width isn't super narrow, and there is adequate smooth and even peripheral side illumination - though nowhere near as good as with the taxi lights, which have a very broad and even throw in the horizontal plane. The taxi lights are mounted with some declination so they will not blind (much) other aircraft during ground ops. The landing lights very obviously would blind other aircraft during ground ops as the long range beams are parallel with or maybe slightly inclinated above level with the tail down.

Maybe not so obvious, the taxi lights have a major advantage for in flight anti-collision! This is so precisely because they have a broad beam. When directly in front of the aircraft with both landing and taxi lights on, the landing lights are brighter. But when you move off to the side and out of the landing light main beam, the taxi lights are much brighter, and remain so all the way out to the side of the aircraft. Another aircraft on a collision course coming at you from off to the side, not dead ahead, will be presented with the brighter taxi lights.

I have my lights wired so that when landing lights are selected, the taxi lights come on as well. When wig-wag is turned on, both the taxi and landing lights on each wing come on together and alternate from side to side. When I turn on the landing light switch, it overrides the wig-wag and all four lights come on together steady. The combined light output borders on astonishing and is good enough to allow landing off airport at night - - though I'd only do that at a spot I'm familiar with.

The figures that the salesman quoted you are incorrect. While LED light output continues to improve, better ones are now above 100 lumens per watt, they ain't in the tens of thousands of lumens per light fixture yet. They have eclipsed HID and all forms of incandescent etc. When I did a side by side test of a 100 watt quartz, 55 watt HID, and 48 watt AeroLed LED, the LEDs were about the same output as the HID, but with a more even light distribution.

In the pictures below, my camera doesn't really give a good idea as to how much light is being put out, as it adjusts exposure according to the brightest spot. Also, color temperature affects the exposure as well. Still, they convey the idea.



Halogen (100 watt Q4509) on left, HID (55 watt) on right.



Halogen on left, AeroLed 36LX (landing) on right.

If you look at just the center of the beams, the quartz halogen looks to be brighter in a very narrow and limited spot - - and it is! It gets its range by focusing the beam tightly while minimizing light to the side. You'd never see that deer coming from the side until he enters the meat chopper!

bumper

mtv wrote:[...I will say that putting the landing lights in the cowling of the 185 was the singularly dumbest thing Cessna ever did. What a terrible place for a light bulb and wiring of any kind!

You are oh so right!

I thought about upping the circuit breaker size but that would just be stupid. I'm going to try the Aeroled taxi light, hoping the problem goes away.

I also had moisture problems, and still have moisture problems with the Whelen Prometheus. I was told the same thing, "its normal." Not the resolution I like to hear.