Hi

Im looking for idea’s on building a propane Engine pre Heater, I have power at the Hanger. If anyone has put one together Id appreciate the details. Also it might be useful to have one which doesn’t need AC.

Thanks,

V1VRV2

V1VRV2 wrote:Hi

Im looking for idea’s on building a propane Engine pre Heater, I have power at the Hanger. If anyone has put one together Id appreciate the details. Also it might be useful to have one which doesn’t need AC.

Thanks,

V1VRV2

If you have power, buy an electric engine pre heater. Reiff, Tanis or EZ-Heat all work great, depending on your overnight temperatures.

There is no way I would use ANY source of combustion heating if I had access to electricity. Electricity virtually eliminates the danger of fire, whereas ANY combustion heating has a significant risk of fire. I can't think of a type of combustion heating that I haven't been witness to them doing some serious damage to an airplane.

Electric heat doesn't create vapor; Propane will put lots of moisture into your engine compartment.

Electricity also allows you to safely heat the interior of the plane, reducing wear and tear on instruments and pilot.....

I would not try to re-invent the wheel. I've kept airplanes outdoors without electricity for years, and had to use combustion heat to warm the engine. I would never go back there unless there simply was no other option. And, I've operated at very cold temperatures.

Reiff: http://www.reiffpreheat.com/product.htm

Tanis: http://www.tanisaircraft.com/piston-preheat.html

EZ Heat: http://e-zheat.com/store/

MTV

+1 on MTV's comments.

Pre-heated for 8 years out doors in N/W Alaska, combustibles for heating an aircraft engine is a fire or heat damage to wiring/hoses just waiting to happen, you'll get away with it till you don't . I got a deal on a Tanis system and hauled a generator on a sled up to the airport before I would go on pre-heating with combustibles. No way I would use them if I had a choice.

+++++2

Gump

Best of both worlds!

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-7- ... /202222975

Ok Guys

But here in Canada our wintertime temps drop to -25 to -30 Celsius thats around -13 F
i don’t want to leave the AC plugged in for extended periods nor do I want ti wait 3-4 hours to go flying, seems most of the elect heaters require a long time to bring the temps up.

I have used propane in the past and with care its a suitable method.

Regards

No matter what heat source you use, at cold temps (-20 to -40F, or colder), you're not going to pre-heat that engine quickly if it's cold soaked.

Blast it with high heat for an hour all you'll have is a hot case exterior, and a lump of frozen oil and a crankshaft at -30F to self destruct if you try and run it.

Gump

I hear ya,

We regularly had temps that cold and colder all winter (jan/feb usually -30/40f). The Tanis/Reiff heaters draw very little electricity and you're engine/aircraft will be better for it in the long run. After seeing a couple planes lost to combustible forms of preheating, going electric is worth the peace of mind, just sayin.

Chris

Ok

I ‘ll look into the REIF and Tanis a little closer. My AC has an oil pan heater installed . I sure don’t want to cause any damage so thats why Im trying to get organized now before the cold sets in. My skis won’t be much use if I can’t go flying.

Another thing with an electric heater, is you could always hook it up to a GSM switch, so it's as simple as sending a text message a couple hours before you fly to get the heater going.

If you must pre-heat without electricity, I think the Northern Companion Pre-Heater is probably your best bet. Aircraft Spruce sells it. It used to cost about $400 but now is about $800. It is possible to duplicate this using your back-packing camp stove for much less, but their set-up looks very nice and it packs up well. It is also a multi-fuel unit.
Charles

The other issue is your gyros. Cold kills 'em, and they're expensive. Not to mention you might need them to fly.

Get a small electric heater and place it up against the rudder pedals, and then drape a blanket over the glareshield and yokes to trap the heat behind the panel. Pre-heat the panel as you pre-heat the engine.

The Golden Rule for flying cold country is, the colder it gets, the slower you do everything. Flying in real cold weather is actually a whole lotta hard work, and completely intolerant of any shortcuts or screw ups. It's worth it though in the performance you get out of the wing and engine, and your views out the windshield.

Gump

noodles wrote:Another thing with an electric heater, is you could always hook it up to a GSM switch, so it's as simple as sending a text message a couple hours before you fly to get the heater going.

Yes, or just drive to the airport the night before and plug it in. Gives you an excuse to the little lady why you "need" to go to the airport.....

I lived and worked in interior Alaska for 20 years, based in Fairbanks. Most of my work was north of there, as into the Upper Yukon Valley. As in Fort Yukon, etc. It gets fairly cold there.

As Gump said, you do NOT want to do a quickie job of heating your engine. It takes several hours to properly and thoroughly pre-heat an engine. Here's a quiz: What's the most expensive part of your engine? The crankshaft....and where does it live? Right at the core of your engine. So, it's critical to pre-heat that engine to the point where the crank, it's bearings and oil journals AND the oil is nice and warm.

And, as I noted earlier, in those cold temps, propane is going to introduce a LOT of moisture into your engine compartment. Granted the engine heat after start will vaporize most of that, but what happens when the weather comes down, just about the time your pre-heat is done??? Now you have an engine compartment that is bathed in moisture. And, everything freezes up. When I did use combustion heat, I started the pre-heat with the mixture at full rich, and the throttle at a starting position, just in case

Finally, at the bottom end of the range you're talking about, propane won't vaporize. Now you have to pre-heat the propane cylinder first.

I prefer the Reiff System over the Tanis system, personally, and I've used both extensively in temps as cold as -40. I like the Reiff system better simply because it uses cylinder bands to heat the cylinders rather than the probes that the Tanis system uses. The Tanis probes occupy the holes that would normally be used by the cylinder head probes. Which means if you want accurate cylinder head temps.....good luck. The spark plug gasket cylinder temp sensors are very inaccurate.

Get a good system, a good insulated engine cover, and just plug the thing in the night before you fly. Worst case, just plug it in and leave it plugged in. Won't hurt a thing.

MTV

V1VRV2 wrote:Ok

I ‘ll look into the REIF and Tanis a little closer. My AC has an oil pan heater installed . I sure don’t want to cause any damage so thats why Im trying to get organized now before the cold sets in. My skis won’t be much use if I can’t go flying.

I live in northern Alberta. Gets pretty cold up here in the winter. When it's -40 I have 0 desire to fly. Way to hard on things. -20 is awesome flying weather though. All I had on my Citabria is a pan heater, and that's what I have on my current 180 as well. I plug it in as well as a small heater in the cab. Parked outside with the cowl covered, it gets pretty nice and warm in a few hours. Most pan heaters are thermostat protected so you don't burn the oil. I leave it plugged in most of the time. It's good to keep the cab a decent temp as its easier on the instruments and keeps the snow melted off the top of the fuselage. You could always set it up on a timer as well, 1 hr off 1 hr on or something like that. Doesn't use as much power and is always ready to go.
Can't wait for ski flying! Yeehaw!

David

Also keep in mind that the prop draws a LOT of heat out of the crank. Covering it helps keep the heat in.

Ok but I have a Catto so not sure how much heat it would draw out !!

V1VRV2 wrote:Ok but I have a Catto so not sure how much heat it would draw out !!

Haha. Well then you should be good! I still have the ol hartzell 3 blade radiator on mine...

I've sure been happy with the Reiff system I have on my airplane. It's just the "standard" version (heated cylinder bands, 100 watt sump heater, plus a 25 watt heater for the oil cooler), since my airplane is in an unheated hangar, and I cover the cowl, prop, and spinner, so that it doesn't have to be the hottest version. I turn it on remotely with a cell switch, and with 4 hours of heating with ambient temps in the +10-+20F range, the entire engine is warm: the oil temp is at the bottom of the green, and the CHTs are in the 60-65F range. If the weather is below zero, I'll turn it on for an 8 or more hour period, but mostly I'm wimpy enough that if it's that cold, I really don't want to fly.

I also have an 800 watt Kats interior heater mounted under the passenger seat, facing toward the panel. It does a nice job of heating the entire cabin, which is good for the gyros.

I haven't used it for the airplane except to test it, but I have a 900 watt Coleman generator that is small enough to take with, if I had a need to preheat out away from any power source.

Cary

Sounds like you guys who have the REIFF heaters are satisfied. Can anyone tell me how difficult they are to instal ?
My Airplane is amateur built so I can install it myself just wondering how long it took to complete.

Thanks

I have a heater I made that I carry when flying to ski towns where a reasonable outlet isn't available. It takes about 45 mins to an hour to take an engine from zero to a little above freezing, where it starts without complaining terribly.

It is a 8' aluminum dryer duct with a DC tubaxial fan. A small PV on the rear hat rack under the rear windows provides 12vdc and is also used to keep the battery warm while parked at the airport (~2a charge current).

My campstove provides the heat. The duct attaches to the grill with wire clips. The fan draws enough air to keep the inlet temps to the engine down under 100f when it is pretty cold outside. No overheat. The stove is well away from the plane. It takes me at least half the required preheat time to remove frost and get things ready for flight anyway in the cold, so the extra wait isn't a big deal.

The safety of the setup is up for debate. I can't use the plane to have fun in the winter without the setup...starting is unreliable without it. It is compact and weighs very little. The only other option I can think of would be to carry a heavier, bulky, loud, and expensive generator for the block heaters and wait a long time. I used it a few times at Granby, once at Eagle, and once at Mineral last winter. I don't know of any reasonable economical solutions at a place like Mineral when it is -10 F in the morning, and without a start, a person is SOL in the back country in the winter.