.cbfraser wrote:I am using an EZ-HEAT oil pan heater, 300 watt and on this trip to Yukon carrying a Honda knock off 900 watt generator(22 lbs, 5hr/gal). Not essential yet at just below freezing but works well, could run battery warmer as well.
Oil temp probe is at top of engine block so it confirms entire block gets warm. Have old blanket and cowl plugs if it gets colder. EZ-HEAT has light built into plug, thermostat and I pull plug out from oil dip stick door. Dawson YK has outlets at tiedowns which makes it easy.
A1Skinner wrote:cbfraser wrote:I am using an EZ-HEAT oil pan heater, 300 watt and on this trip to Yukon carrying a Honda knock off 900 watt generator(22 lbs, 5hr/gal). Not essential yet at just below freezing but works well, could run battery warmer as well.
Oil temp probe is at top of engine block so it confirms entire block gets warm. Have old blanket and cowl plugs if it gets colder. EZ-HEAT has light built into plug, thermostat and I pull plug out from oil dip stick door. Dawson YK has outlets at tiedowns which makes it easy.
Slight drift here, but what kind of plane is that cb?
cbfraser wrote:A1Skinner wrote:cbfraser wrote:I am using an EZ-HEAT oil pan heater, 300 watt and on this trip to Yukon carrying a Honda knock off 900 watt generator(22 lbs, 5hr/gal). Not essential yet at just below freezing but works well, could run battery warmer as well.
Oil temp probe is at top of engine block so it confirms entire block gets warm. Have old blanket and cowl plugs if it gets colder. EZ-HEAT has light built into plug, thermostat and I pull plug out from oil dip stick door. Dawson YK has outlets at tiedowns which makes it easy.
Slight drift here, but what kind of plane is that cb?
Stretched pa20 aka bushmaster
Not too much pa20 left in it
D&e wings, grove gear io360
lesuther wrote:Mine is not thermostatically controlled. It can get mighty warm when the ambient temp is over 70F. It has cylinder and oil heaters. It takes hours to get the temps up using the installed heaters whereas the stove and solar powered fan do the job in an hour or less (blowing hot air works a lot faster than natural convection).
As for the stove approach, I must have missed the parts in all those books on Alaska flying where all those planes burned up from heater fires. Quite an omission. And all those people who use them now too never seem to mention this issue. Maybe they are too embarrassed, or maybe...not.
The risk is almost 100% theoretical. The reality is...boring.
akavidflyer wrote:If you have a plane with enough cargo room to carry a generator more power to ya (not much of a pun intended), but if your flying remote and you have all your survival gear, wing covers etc, stuffed into the plane you can run out of room real quick.
rw2 wrote:akavidflyer wrote:If you have a plane with enough cargo room to carry a generator more power to ya (not much of a pun intended), but if your flying remote and you have all your survival gear, wing covers etc, stuffed into the plane you can run out of room real quick.
Yeah, a lot of back country planes have low useful loads or can't be used at full gross and still get into the desired strip.
Just to put a number to it though, the honda 2000 only weighs 46lbs. So is an option in a lot of scenarios.
akavidflyer wrote:.... I am speaking from direct experience, not just hypothetical shit from an arm chair quarterback
lesuther wrote:This isn't meant to be a spitting contest. If electricity is available, and you have the time, by all means. I use electricity all the time when available, even when the time required to wait is a pain in the butt.
In the boonies, if running a small generator for a few hours to warm things up strikes you as better, by all means, why not.
Keep in mind there are a few burned up planes out there from electrical heating as well, and one person on this forum showed pics of an oil pan heater that almost did the job on his plane. I also have no doubt that there may well be quite a few more incidents out there with combustion heaters than with electrical heaters.
But if the issue is risk, and if risk is defined by severity times likelihood, either option is pretty low on the property risk scale when performed with a modicum of common sense and care.
Gas heaters work really fast- especially with a little help from a fan. Electric heaters are great when available- mine is on a cell phone switch. My plane will not start when the engine is anywhere close to zero without jumpers hooked up to a pretty good car. I hate carrying around a generator when its only purpose at any point is to warm a cold engine. I have a nice small one that is up to the task, but why bother when I have a gas heater that weighs maybe a couple of pounds and fits in my stove kit?
As for moisture, it is true. My engine will be coated in a heavy layer of frost within 15 minutes of starting to heat. It is gone within a half hour as the surface temps rise, and the engine is around 70-80 degrees on the surfaces when I stop, and dry. After I quit, the engine cools off to around 40 before I start as the cold interior continues to absorb heat. It works fine.
If you have power and a cell phone, why not just do that? Those of us that have to go places where we are screwed if the engine is cold can choose one of the methods...but don't be afraid of either.
mtv wrote:akavidflyer wrote:.... I am speaking from direct experience, not just hypothetical shit from an arm chair quarterback
Got it....sorry, I had no idea that having spent twenty years and ten thousand hours or so flying north of the Alaska Range makes me an arm chair quarterback.
Your Avid probably doesn't have enough stuff in the panel to worry about a little moisture, but all I said is I wouldn't put a hose from that rig into the cockpit of my airplane. Do what you want, with your airplane.
MTV
mtv wrote:Where do you suppose that water is coming from....could it be from that gasoline and the combustion process? ALL gasoline has water in it. It's impossible to remove all of it.
For portability, choose a heat source that is small and light enough to be carried in the airplane's winter survival kit (see Chapter 24). This is important, for the professional bush pilot will every now and then find himself stuck overnight someplace due to a fast-moving weather system and will require the services of his engine preheater once the front moves through.
The best bush preheating rig is one that uses a simple old-fashioned gasoline blowtorch that can be operated on avgas taken directly from the airplane's fuel sumps. Since this is a systems approach, if you wish to use a different heat source you will find little difficulty in adapting this technique to your purpose. For the convenience of those who are unable to locate gasoline-powered blowtorches -- they are hard to find these modern days -- several alternative heat sources have been listed, though they all fall far below the level of utility that the blowtorches achieve.
Blowtorch and stovepipe method. The equipment list for this system consists of a small fire extinguisher, one or two gasoline blowtorches, three lengths of 3" stovepipe, an insulated engine cover, and a two- or five-gallon metal gasoline can. Here is how the system works:
After the last flight of the day, the oil is drained from the engine into the gasoline can. Quick-drains should be installed on all airplanes in the fleet to facilitate this daily chore.
The can of oil is taken inside your office or home, where it is placed near the stove so it can be kept warm until needed again.
When the airplane is to be called into service, the can of oil, with the lid removed, is placed on top of the stove and heated to about 122 degrees F/50 degrees C.
While the oil is warming, take the three lengths of 3" stovepipe and fasten them together. Place one end inside the engine compartment and temporarily rest the other end on the ground. The best place for the pipe to go into the Super Cub's engine compartment is on the right side by the brace to the exhaust stack. With the Cessna 180/185, it is best to drop the right cowl-flap and place the pipe there (see illustrations 28 and 31).
Carefully light the blowtorch away from the airplane, and when it is operating properly place the nozzle into the lower end of the stovepipe.
With the Cessna 180/185 and 206 you should use two blowtorches, and these must be placed in the same pipe (see illustration 31). Never use two pipes, one going to the right side cowl-flap and the other going to the left side cowl-flap, because of the danger that one of the blowtorches might go out, while still spraying fuel into the stovepipe. The second torch could then ignite the fuel inside the engine compartment. With both torches in the same stovepipe this danger is averted.
Adjust the insulated engine cover over the top and sides of the engine compartment so the right cooling air-inlet, behind the prop, is covered and the left air-inlet is open (see illustration 28). This is done to allow the heated air to pass over the engine and out the far side, taking the cold with it. Remember, heat-circulation is the name of the game. When using combustion heaters, if both air-inlets are blocked, it will take longer for the engine to reach starting temperatures.
When the engine is warm enough that the prop moves freely and the carburetor or fuel-injector is able to vaporize fuel correctly (about 45 minutes at -4 degrees F/-20 degrees C; 1+20 at -40 degrees F/-40 degrees C), the blowtorch(es) can be turned off and set aside to cool. At this point the hot oil is poured into the engine, three or four shots of priming are given, and the engine is turned over four to six times by hand. It is now ready to go, and should start on the first turn of the prop.
M6RV6 wrote:Could not find a picture of the whole set up, but did find this article. This an excerp from F. E. Potts' Guide to Bush Flying
MTV, you ever have to use this, I did a couple times, never been more nervous in my life!! Did not go have a cup while it warmed up!!For portability, choose a heat source that is small and light enough to be carried in the airplane's winter survival kit (see Chapter 24). This is important, for the professional bush pilot will every now and then find himself stuck overnight someplace due to a fast-moving weather system and will require the services of his engine preheater once the front moves through.
The best bush preheating rig is one that uses a simple old-fashioned gasoline blowtorch that can be operated on avgas taken directly from the airplane's fuel sumps. Since this is a systems approach, if you wish to use a different heat source you will find little difficulty in adapting this technique to your purpose. For the convenience of those who are unable to locate gasoline-powered blowtorches -- they are hard to find these modern days -- several alternative heat sources have been listed, though they all fall far below the level of utility that the blowtorches achieve.
Blowtorch and stovepipe method. The equipment list for this system consists of a small fire extinguisher, one or two gasoline blowtorches, three lengths of 3" stovepipe, an insulated engine cover, and a two- or five-gallon metal gasoline can. Here is how the system works:
After the last flight of the day, the oil is drained from the engine into the gasoline can. Quick-drains should be installed on all airplanes in the fleet to facilitate this daily chore.
The can of oil is taken inside your office or home, where it is placed near the stove so it can be kept warm until needed again.
When the airplane is to be called into service, the can of oil, with the lid removed, is placed on top of the stove and heated to about 122 degrees F/50 degrees C.
While the oil is warming, take the three lengths of 3" stovepipe and fasten them together. Place one end inside the engine compartment and temporarily rest the other end on the ground. The best place for the pipe to go into the Super Cub's engine compartment is on the right side by the brace to the exhaust stack. With the Cessna 180/185, it is best to drop the right cowl-flap and place the pipe there (see illustrations 28 and 31).
Carefully light the blowtorch away from the airplane, and when it is operating properly place the nozzle into the lower end of the stovepipe.
With the Cessna 180/185 and 206 you should use two blowtorches, and these must be placed in the same pipe (see illustration 31). Never use two pipes, one going to the right side cowl-flap and the other going to the left side cowl-flap, because of the danger that one of the blowtorches might go out, while still spraying fuel into the stovepipe. The second torch could then ignite the fuel inside the engine compartment. With both torches in the same stovepipe this danger is averted.
Adjust the insulated engine cover over the top and sides of the engine compartment so the right cooling air-inlet, behind the prop, is covered and the left air-inlet is open (see illustration 28). This is done to allow the heated air to pass over the engine and out the far side, taking the cold with it. Remember, heat-circulation is the name of the game. When using combustion heaters, if both air-inlets are blocked, it will take longer for the engine to reach starting temperatures.
When the engine is warm enough that the prop moves freely and the carburetor or fuel-injector is able to vaporize fuel correctly (about 45 minutes at -4 degrees F/-20 degrees C; 1+20 at -40 degrees F/-40 degrees C), the blowtorch(es) can be turned off and set aside to cool. At this point the hot oil is poured into the engine, three or four shots of priming are given, and the engine is turned over four to six times by hand. It is now ready to go, and should start on the first turn of the prop.
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