V1VRV2 wrote:Sounds like you guys who have the REIFF heaters are satisfied. Can anyone tell me how difficult they are to instal ?
My Airplane is amateur built so I can install it myself just wondering how long it took to complete.

Thanks

The Reiff systems are a piece of cake to install. The only gotcha is that you need to ensure the silicone heat pads are solidly bonded to the substrate to prevent potential overheating. And make sure you let them cure for the recommended time.

The cylinder bands simply go on like a hose clamp around the cylinder.

Most mechanics run all the wires together and terminate them to the plug which they tie wrap inside the cowling. I hate that for a lot of reasons.

We ran all the wires to a recessed plug which we mounted to the boot cowl outside the airplane. We also connected a small red guide light to the circuit so that when there's power to the circuit, the light will be visible. The recessed plug and guide light are mounted far enough aft that they aren't covered by the engine cover. So, airplane is cold, but engine covered, walk up, plug in your extension cord, light illuminates, you know you have heat, life is good.

In my case, parked for the night in Fort Yukon, I could drive by any time and from a distance, see the light and know that some kid hadn't unplugged the plane.....

Easy to do, and makes a lot cleaner installation. I'll try to post a picture.

MTV

V1VRV2 wrote:Sounds like you guys who have the REIFF heaters are satisfied. Can anyone tell me how difficult they are to instal ?
My Airplane is amateur built so I can install it myself just wondering how long it took to complete.

Thanks

Of most of the folks on this forum, I probably have the least mechanical knowledge and ability. Yeah, I know which way to turn a screw or bolt, and I can change spark plugs and oil, and other simple stuff, but that's about it. But I had no trouble, and didn't take very long, to install my Reiff, maybe an hour or so. The bands go on the cylinders easily, and the only time consuming issue is that once the heat pad is installed on the sump, it has to sit and cure for awhile. Taking the time to sand any finish off of the sump is worth while, as it will make it bond better.

But you said you already have a sump heater, so you could go with just the bands.

As for where to run the cord to plug in, I have mine just under the inspection flap on the left side of my cowl. That's also where I have my APU receptacle. I can close the flap on the cord easily, to take the strain off the cord/plug itself. If I had it plugged in outside, I suspect I'd do something like MTV mentioned, so that a light would tell me if it was getting power.

Cary

My remote preheater. One hose for the engine, one in the cab. a couple hours at -10 and mine fires right up. I only have to pump the bottle once or twice. The ice screws are for tying down on the frozen lakes I fly into.

akavidflyer wrote:




My remote preheater. One hose for the engine, one in the cab. a couple hours at -10 and mine fires right up. I only have to pump the bottle once or twice. The ice screws are for tying down on the frozen lakes I fly into.

As I noted earlier, ALL combustion heaters create a lot of moisture. I would never put a hose from that rig into a cabin of an airplane.....you'll be doing more harm than good in my opinion.

MTV

Here's a picture of a Husky with the electric plug mounted in the boot cowl. Look at the red stripe just aft of the cowling, you'll see the recessed plug and the small red guide light.



This makes for a really handy set up, particularly if you're having to pre-heat regularly. The frustration of having to run your extension cord into the engine compartment, through a cowl door, then mash the cowl door down with the engine cover, or having to remove the engine cover, open the cowl door, plug in the heater, then re-cover, etc.....will quickly convince you that this is a really clean and handy set up.

MTV

Tanis has all the stuff for external plug and indicator light. I have a Tanis, mostly because of the guy that installed the Reiff on a snowmobile and they told him to shove it when a warranty issue came up because it wasn't installed on an airplane.

gbflyer wrote:Tanis has all the stuff for external plug and indicator light. I have a Tanis, mostly because of the guy that installed the Reiff on a snowmobile and they told him to shove it when a warranty issue came up because it wasn't installed on an airplane.

Napa Auto parts has all the stuff for this as well.....PMAd of course...

MTV

As usual Mike has very sound advice!!!
I have a 12V system on my cub but also have homemade heater with old MSR stove, homemade with black cat propane catalytic heater, Red Dragon propane heater x 2, and old white gas catalytic heater. My plane is kept in heated hanger. Now I do overnight out in the winter and the coldest was flying with Irondog race at -30. I was able to find AC and have a 100 ft cord so no problem, The trick is to find a buddy with a 185 to carry the generator and plug into it. If you are going to fly where there is no AC and it will get cold one of the catalytic heaters kept on overnight will keep the engine warm (1 small propane bottle lasts aprox 8 hours). As the others have said once you cold soak to -30 you will take several hours to warm unless you have a red dragon and that takes a lot of 12v juice to run the fan your plane battery will be dead before you are ready to start. If you have AC near the plane a simple pan heater with cowl blanket will get you warm overnight. If you are out in real cold weather start warming the night before.
Had a friend try the old drain oil and heat on stove did not work all that well at -30. It is a very good system for the old round motors but they all so had a engine cover that went to the ground where they would put a heater and preheat engine for hours before flight.
I pull my battery out and keep it warm when plane is left out in the cold. It spins over a lot better and easier on the charging system. There are a lot of was to get the job done and you have to plan ahead in the cold or you will have problems. Pick what works for you and what you are doing.
DENNY

Edit my post above:
that is a 120v Reiff system I have on my plane.
DENNY

With no hydro available out on the ice, I have no option but to use propane.
A simple sunburst heater mounted on a propane tank, a furnace duct reducer & a 4' length of aluminum vent hose in the lower boot cowl & a blanket have been starting our planes for yrs.
I set my limit at about 0F, colder than that is no fun in prep or tie down.

I should reiterate that my comments against using combustion heat were directed toward the original poster's comment that he was looking for propane heat source when he has access to electricity.

I have preheated with a variety of combustion heaters literally hundreds of times. When you have no other option, it works fine. But understand and mitigate the risk to the extent possible, and understand that any combustion heat source does induce significant risk.

I've been told by folks that a good old Herman Nelson is totally safe, for example. But, I've seen the paint literally melted off the cowling if an airplane whose "pilot" was inside drinking coffee instead of monitoring the pre heat. Oh, yeah....the cowl cover was destroyed as well.

I have one of the original Northern Companion heaters that I carry in winter in case. That said, I'd never buy one now at the ridiculous pricing they're asking. But you can make something similar. Note if doing so, however, that to place the FUEL TANK for the stove inside the heat chamber would be asking for an explosion. That's why the NC uses a stove type with the tank separate from the burner.

Also, the NC has a fine mesh screen in the heater outlet to catch clinkers that may come off the stove.....remember, you're directing a lot of stove exhaust into an engine compartment that contains a lot of combustibles.

I've used catalytic heaters over night, but they too induce a risk....they'll all flare up in just the wrong circumstances, and that's your cue to walk home.

So, again, my message is to use electricity and an AIRPLANE pre heat system (the earlier comment that most silicone heat pads have a thermostat is incorrect) if power is available. And, in the event you're going to need heat where no electric is available, give a lot of thought to just how safe your combustion pre heat system is.

MTV

V1VRV2 wrote:Sounds like you guys who have the REIFF heaters are satisfied. Can anyone tell me how difficult they are to instal ?
My Airplane is amateur built so I can install it myself just wondering how long it took to complete.

Thanks

Speaking of thumbnail picture -what kind of information on your airplane.,powerplant, experimental model type etc. I myself have Hanger(s) and rarely go where I need preheat. I do have a portable portable preheat made from a 5 gallon old can with a Coleman propane bottle heater ,with old dryer hose snaked into cowl-with blanket.

I've used a homemade combustion preheater and while it worked I have no interest in using it again. For the Bearhawk I plan to install a Reiff and when I'm camping in the cold I'll take a generator.

I carry a Honda 1000 watt generator...big fan of installed electrical preheat...even when out camping in the boonies in winter.

For those using Honda (and probably other makes) generators for pre-heat, a couple of cautions....

1) In my experience, those generators are reluctant to start if THEY are cold soaked below about zero degrees F, maybe a little colder. So, if you're going to use a generator to pre-heat in very cold temps, figure out some way to pre-heat the generator at least a little. In cases where I've done this, we were in heated tents/cabin, so kept the generator inside at night, took it out in the AM, fired it up before it got too cold, then took it to the plane.

2) Honda generators WILL blow their seals out in very cold temperatures if you don't take measures to keep the breather from icing up. All fuel contains water, and during the combustion process, that water is a byproduct. It is vented from the engine case via a breather. I believe Honda makes a cold weather breather for at least their larger generators. But, again, when pre-heating with these things, it's a good idea to stay close and monitor the goings on, lest you smoke that expensive generator AND wind up with a cold airplane engine.

MTV

If you don't have a winter kit on your Honda it will blow seals out at -30 or more. You can put a cardboard box over it and prop it up so air can get in as a work around.

I don't know that I'll ever camp out when it is -40F but I have thought about what I'd do if I needed a power source for preheat at those really cold temps. Think I'd find a 2-stroke generator and a can of ether.

mtv wrote:
So, again, my message is to use electricity and an AIRPLANE pre heat system (the earlier comment that most silicone heat pads have a thermostat is incorrect)
MTV

Sorry Mike, but I do believe that many AIRCRAFT heat pads are thermostat controlled. (I would not suggest using a non aircraft pad on a plane).
Example: http://www.lakeandair.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=52

Mine is not thermostatically controlled. It can get mighty warm when the ambient temp is over 70F. It has cylinder and oil heaters. It takes hours to get the temps up using the installed heaters whereas the stove and solar powered fan do the job in an hour or less (blowing hot air works a lot faster than natural convection).

As for the stove approach, I must have missed the parts in all those books on Alaska flying where all those planes burned up from heater fires. Quite an omission. And all those people who use them now too never seem to mention this issue. Maybe they are too embarrassed, or maybe...not.

The risk is almost 100% theoretical. The reality is...boring.

As for the stove approach, I must have missed the parts in all those books on Alaska flying where all those planes burned up from heater fires. Quite an omission. And all those people who use them now too never seem to mention this issue. Maybe they are too embarrassed, or maybe...not.

The risk is almost 100% theoretical. The reality is...boring.

Don't know about that. I'm not positive this fire was caused by preheating, but it could have been.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Fr ... 20991.html


Sorry...I just need to share that as widely as possible.