flynbeekeeper wrote:Safety briefing/info down on the RAF website pending new info. It will recommend landing down canyon. Easily done, that is my preferred method. Liability waivers located at the small kiosk amid the Airstream trailers if Susan is not around. Fill it out and leave it there. New owners have been super generous in that respect! FYI: Susan's husband Kurt had major surgery a couple of weeks ago, they may be not able to answer your request.

Hmmm. Landing down canyon means landing downhill, coming into a pretty narrow (between the trees) area on the west end. I can see doing that if there's a stiff west wind, and for sure taking off down canyon is best, but I'd personally hesitate to land down canyon most of the time--but maybe that's because I've never done it there. I have landed with a bit of a tailwind up canyon, which resulted in touching down later than I liked, but the slope took care of that issue quickly without hard braking.

Cary

Hmmm. Landing down canyon means landing downhill, coming into a pretty narrow (between the trees) area on the west end. I can see doing that if there's a stiff west wind, and for sure taking off down canyon is best, but I'd personally hesitate to land down canyon most of the time--but maybe that's because I've never done it there. I have landed with a bit of a tailwind up canyon, which resulted in touching down later than I liked, but the slope took care of that issue quickly without hard braking.

Cary:

I suspect the reason they are advocating landing to the west is that the terrain rises pretty sharply to the east. A few years back there was a tragic accident that took place at Marble (I believe it was a T-Craft). He had to execute a go around and in that low powered T-Craft, couldn't outclimb the terrain.

I agree that maneuvering for landing / final is a little trickier from the east. But if you do have to execute a go around, at least the terrain is dropping off and not rising up to get you.

L

88H wrote:

Hmmm. Landing down canyon means landing downhill, coming into a pretty narrow (between the trees) area on the west end. I can see doing that if there's a stiff west wind, and for sure taking off down canyon is best, but I'd personally hesitate to land down canyon most of the time--but maybe that's because I've never done it there. I have landed with a bit of a tailwind up canyon, which resulted in touching down later than I liked, but the slope took care of that issue quickly without hard braking.

Cary:

I suspect the reason they are advocating landing to the west is that the terrain rises pretty sharply to the east. A few years back there was a tragic accident that took place at Marble (I believe it was a T-Craft). He had to execute a go around and in that low powered T-Craft, couldn't outclimb the terrain.

I agree that maneuvering for landing / final is a little trickier from the east. But if you do have to execute a go around, at least the terrain is dropping off and not rising up to get you.

L

I agree that doing a go around to the east requires doing it early enough that the rising terrain can be cleared. The accident that you described, however, was a 6th attempt to land to the west and a failure to properly go around--the report says that he touched down about halfway and then attempted to go around. https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... l&IType=FA

Landing on any downhill strip is generally more difficult than landing uphill--obviously not impossible, just more difficult. Just from my observation, the Marble strip is pretty steeply pitched--I don't know the percentage. The usual training advice on landing on any pitched strip is to land uphill and take off downhill, except when strong winds dictate otherwise. In balance, though, I think recommending landing to the west as the preferred direction at Marble is a mistake.

Cary

Cary:

Since I have only landed on the strip to the east and departed to the west. I am not necessarily arguing with you. If you were flying a left downwind to land to the west, it would have to be a pretty tight turn on base leg. And I am also probably showing my diminishing grey matter here, but I honestly don't remember that strip having any real significant slope to it (been a number of years since I have been there).

However, I suspect that there was probably more than a little thought put into advocating landing to the west.

Maybe someone familiar with why that was done can weigh in.

P.S. your location says FC. Was sure disappointed that the City of Fort Collins chose to shut down the down town airport. We have family in FC and it sure was a lot handier landing downtown than going out to Loveland and we always were treated real well when we went in there (been quite a few years now).

Cary,
As with with all things aviation, you, the PIC, are the ultimate authority. The new procedure will be the "recommended" arrival procedure. Land either direction, you have filled out the liability waiver and it is on you. No problems.
I have been landing down canyon for years. Here are my reasons: 1)I can land at midfield in my 206 and turn into the parking area with no braking. No turn around and taxi back. 2) go around possibilities 3) the airstrip is much smoother on that end.
As for "down hill", a quick check on Google Earth shows a 45' drop over 3800' run. Pretty flat.
Tom

Since I haven't been into Marble since the last Colorado Pilots fly-in, my memory may be faulty, but from the time I started flying in there 9 years ago, I don't think I recall seeing but one airplane land down canyon to the west. You may be correct about the 45' drop in 3800' (I don't know how to get elevations in Google Earth), but a 4 story drop seems like a lot to me, especially when I look at the YouTube video I made of one of my take offs several years ago. Granted that would be only a 1.2% slope, but it still seems steep to me.

Additionally, the NTSB report of the T-craft accident mentions that the strip's owner at that time said that the recommended direction for landing was to the east, not the west, and the published information that the CPA had on that website also recommended landing to the east except when there was a strong wind from the west.

But you're right, ultimately it's up to the PIC to determine which to do.

Cary

Cary,
It is all a bureaucratic snafu. The old briefing did not have a "renewal" date. Therefore the whole thing came to "review" by the RAF. New procedure (pending) by Patrick Romano, RAF State Liaison. I have agreed to the new procedure since it makes sense (to me) to land down canyon. What do I know?!
The big takeaway: the Walton family is fine with private use of their property. Go use it!! What an amazing place! Headed there this weekend.Tom

flynbeekeeper wrote:….Liability waivers located at the small kiosk amid the Airstream trailers if Susan is not around. Fill it out and leave it there. New owners have been super generous in that respect! .....

INteresting that you fill out liability waiver AFTER you've landed.
Very trusting of the owners.
T'was me, if I decided I required waivers, I'd have people send them in ahead of time.

Fiddler's recent trip report in his C 120 from CA to CO and back includes video of his landing at Marble (both: Marble AZ on the way out and Marble CO on the way home).

It's in part 3 at the 5:51 point.

Please don't misunderstand: You are required to get permission and fill out a waiver before you land at Marble. Please email Susan at [email protected]. The waivers located on field are for those that do not do so. Using the strip without permission is not cool. The owners have been super generous in placing those waivers on site. Please contact Susan before you go there!!
Tom

Landing and taking off at Marble a few weeks back (at about 5:50):

Hey Tom,

The Marble info/waiver is still down on the RAF web site. Is there an updated process? If we've signed a waiver before are we still good to go in?

soyAnarchisto wrote:Hey Tom,

The Marble info/waiver is still down on the RAF web site. Is there an updated process? If we've signed a waiver before are we still good to go in?

Did you get another airplane?

Transition time, RAF moving stuff from their website to http://www.airfield.guide website where the waivers for many airfields are now handled.. Log on, http://www.airfield.guide, either search for marble or zoom on the map and select. You will find a "waiver" tab. good to go from there.
This is a super awesome website with a huge amount of potential. Thanks to the Arkansas backcountry guys for developing it. The RAF has thrown all of their weight behind it.
Tom

This guide says there is hiking to the south. Does anyone have recommendations on trails? We're are thinking of over-nighting here and getting some hiking in.

Thanks!

I recently had the privilege to land and camp at Marble, Colorado.



This is a SPECTACULAR spot! Note that it is a high altitude strip with density altitudes often well over 11,000' in the summer! Recommend operations only in the coolest temperatures--not midday in the summer!

Prior permission is required to land here. PLEASE review the airstrip information and fill out the on-line waiver PRIOR to landing. You can access the waiver here: https://airfield.guide/filter_airports.asp?892;EhRgcgBngZBzbgINPSEs. The caretaker, Susan, did ask whether I had filled out the landing waiver while I was on downwind (good for her!).

Here is a 360° video of the landing https://youtu.be/gswxycHIDW8 and the takeoff two days later https://youtu.be/e9sWnZPjaO0. Use your mouse (computer) or finger (phone/tablet) to view different perspectives.

There are showers (thank you!), a charging station (no cell or internet service though) and potable water available at the picnic table area.

The "coffee" spot by the pond is idyllic!

Great video Ted! … what video camera did you use?

Thank you for your comment!

Camera is the Insta360. The latest version is here

https://www.amazon.com/Insta360-Waterproof-Stabilization-Editing-Streaming/dp/B08M3B9754/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Insta360&qid=1626661477&sr=8-3