The extended extended baggage (EEB) is in. Gonna be a great place to keep the bulky covers, or sleeping bags, etc. I've seen bigger extended extended baggages but this is the one we could get field approved.

Added eyebolts in the upper corners (already existed in the lower), plan on getting a cargo net made to keep stuff from going into the EEB.

We keep a gaff hook in the wing lockers of the navajo's because they are longer than a person's arms. I would recomend you do the same. Carbon fiber gaff hook of course... for weight.

Now that is an extended baggage!!!! [emoji1360]

asa wrote:We keep a gaff hook in the wing lockers of the navajo's because they are longer than a person's arms. I would recomend you do the same. Carbon fiber gaff hook of course... for weight.

I was like "a gaff hook...I'm not going fishing..." and then the light bulb slowly went on...ha ha ha. Great idea.

Or, given your avatar, maybe a lasso?

Hi Phil,
Did you end up adding the Sportsman cuff to your Robertson equipped 185? If so, how do you like that combination?
Thanks
Matt

Fraser Farmer wrote:Hi Phil,
Did you end up adding the Sportsman cuff to your Robertson equipped 185? If so, how do you like that combination?
Thanks
Matt

Not yet. I did a bunch of other mods including putting LED strobes all around the plane, head phone jacks for the back seat, replacing the airspeed indicator with one that reads in knots and mph and getting it painted with the RSTOL speeds (the old one wasn't), and getting the Fuel Injection looked at as it was too rich in the pattern.

Still to add is a new panel with a Dynon Skyview, and the Sportsmans.

Fraser Farmer wrote:Hi Phil,
Did you end up adding the Sportsman cuff to your Robertson equipped 185? If so, how do you like that combination?
Thanks
Matt

Matt,

I got to be the guinea pig for this mod combination on a 185 I’d flown ~ 2000 hours at the time. Our aircraft folks wanted to try a Sportsman cuff on an RSTOL equipped 185.

So, they hired an experienced shop to install the Sportsman kit on the 185 I was assigned. I was sort of skeptical, but open to a fair trial.

I was REALLY impressed. I’d flown a few Sportsman equipped planes, but this was the first with before and after experience. The airplane became much more stable and forgiving at very high angle of attack. As you likely know, RSTOL airplanes can exhibit somewhat abrupt breaks in the stall, when pushed hard. The Sportsman pretty much did away with that characteristic. Plane just mushed into a sink. You could maneuver it hard, and it’d hang on, but sink mightily.

The result was the ability to actually approach and land slower, because the plane was much more solid and predictable at those high angles.

A totally unexpected additional benefit was that the Sportsman kit gave me back a bit of the aileron effectiveness lost with the RSTOL kit. That doubtless had to do with the aileron gap seals in the kit. Not huge, but definitely noticeable.

If I owned an RSTOL equipped plane now, first thing I’d do is install a Sportsman.

MTV

Barnstormer wrote:

Fraser Farmer wrote:Hi Phil,
Did you end up adding the Sportsman cuff to your Robertson equipped 185? If so, how do you like that combination?
Thanks
Matt

Not yet. I did a bunch of other mods including putting LED strobes all around the plane, head phone jacks for the back seat, replacing the airspeed indicator with one that reads in knots and mph and getting it painted with the RSTOL speeds (the old one wasn't), and getting the Fuel Injection looked at as it was too rich in the pattern.

Still to add is a new panel with a Dynon Skyview, and the Sportsmans.

It's a real beauty bird and going to be very nicely equipped. Those LED strobes are nice.

mtv wrote:

Fraser Farmer wrote:Hi Phil,
Did you end up adding the Sportsman cuff to your Robertson equipped 185? If so, how do you like that combination?
Thanks
Matt

Matt,

I got to be the guinea pig for this mod combination on a 185 I’d flown ~ 2000 hours at the time. Our aircraft folks wanted to try a Sportsman cuff on an RSTOL equipped 185.

So, they hired an experienced shop to install the Sportsman kit on the 185 I was assigned. I was sort of skeptical, but open to a fair trial.

I was REALLY impressed. I’d flown a few Sportsman equipped planes, but this was the first with before and after experience. The airplane became much more stable and forgiving at very high angle of attack. As you likely know, RSTOL airplanes can exhibit somewhat abrupt breaks in the stall, when pushed hard. The Sportsman pretty much did away with that characteristic. Plane just mushed into a sink. You could maneuver it hard, and it’d hang on, but sink mightily.

The result was the ability to actually approach and land slower, because the plane was much more solid and predictable at those high angles.

A totally unexpected additional benefit was that the Sportsman kit gave me back a bit of the aileron effectiveness lost with the RSTOL kit. That doubtless had to do with the aileron gap seals in the kit. Not huge, but definitely noticeable.

If I owned an RSTOL equipped plane now, first thing I’d do is install a Sportsman.

MTV

Mike,
Thanks for your knowledgeable input. I feel like I've never yet asked a Skywagon question where you haven't had experience in the exact configuration I'm asking about! What I'm actually wondering about is float performance of that configuration. Did you feel the RSTOL shortened up the takeoff run on floats? If you had the Sportsman would the RSTOL be a good add? I see they still sell the RSTOL kit although everyone seems to do the WingX now.
Matt

Mike,

Thanks, your comment has accelerated the Sportsmans STOL install. Originally I was going to fly the 185 back to Alaska next month (and stop in a see you guys) but will be back down here (Louisiana) in October so doesn't make a whole lotta sense considering the current climate. Think I'll leave it with my mechanic and get the Sportsman installed.

I absolutely love the RSTOL, and absolutely loved the Sportsman I put on my previous 185, so really looking forward to flying the combination.

Ok, for the Sportsman experts out there, if I were to put a Sportsman Cuff on my RStol equipped 185, should I plan to remove the Robertson Cuff that was placed over my non-cambered 1972 leading edge? It seems crazy that I would have three cuffs if I were to slap the Sportsman on the Robertson on the factory.

Squash wrote:Ok, for the Sportsman experts out there, if I were to put a Sportsman Cuff on my RStol equipped 185, should I plan to remove the Robertson Cuff that was placed over my non-cambered 1972 leading edge? It seems crazy that I would have three cuffs if I were to slap the Sportsman on the Robertson on the factory.

You would take the roberston cuff off. The templates would not fit otherwise, as they are designed either for the non cuffed or later cuffed wings, not designed to line up with any other stol kit cuff.

Thank you! Perfect info.

Fraser Farmer wrote:

mtv wrote:

Fraser Farmer wrote:Hi Phil,
Did you end up adding the Sportsman cuff to your Robertson equipped 185? If so, how do you like that combination?
Thanks
Matt

Matt,

I got to be the guinea pig for this mod combination on a 185 I’d flown ~ 2000 hours at the time. Our aircraft folks wanted to try a Sportsman cuff on an RSTOL equipped 185.

So, they hired an experienced shop to install the Sportsman kit on the 185 I was assigned. I was sort of skeptical, but open to a fair trial.

I was REALLY impressed. I’d flown a few Sportsman equipped planes, but this was the first with before and after experience. The airplane became much more stable and forgiving at very high angle of attack. As you likely know, RSTOL airplanes can exhibit somewhat abrupt breaks in the stall, when pushed hard. The Sportsman pretty much did away with that characteristic. Plane just mushed into a sink. You could maneuver it hard, and it’d hang on, but sink mightily.

The result was the ability to actually approach and land slower, because the plane was much more solid and predictable at those high angles.

A totally unexpected additional benefit was that the Sportsman kit gave me back a bit of the aileron effectiveness lost with the RSTOL kit. That doubtless had to do with the aileron gap seals in the kit. Not huge, but definitely noticeable.

If I owned an RSTOL equipped plane now, first thing I’d do is install a Sportsman.

MTV

Mike,
Thanks for your knowledgeable input. I feel like I've never yet asked a Skywagon question where you haven't had experience in the exact configuration I'm asking about! What I'm actually wondering about is float performance of that configuration. Did you feel the RSTOL shortened up the takeoff run on floats? If you had the Sportsman would the RSTOL be a good add? I see they still sell the RSTOL kit although everyone seems to do the WingX now.
Matt

I honestly don't know how much or even if the Sportsman addition to that RSTOL 185 shortened up the float takeoffs. That's kind of a tough evaluation. What it DID do, however, is allowed me to get airborne and hang in ground effect better at slow speeds and in gusty conditions. The RSTOL allows the plane to fly at remarkably slow speeds.....the Sportsman makes it more stable at those slower speeds, thus allowing you to USE that RSTOL performance with more confidence, particularly in sketchy conditions. Which effectively, reduced the takeoff distance, I guess....

I had a couple of places I went in and out of with that plane on floats that were really narrow oxbow sloughs, surrounded by tall trees. In a wind, those places were easy to land in, but really spooky to launch out of. I slept in the airplane in those places a few times because I was dumb enough to land there in a breeze to pick up a load, then had to think better of whether to try a takeoff.

The Sportsman didn't really permit takeoff in much more wind, but when you took off in gusty conditions, the plane would launch and hang on, sometimes by its fingernails, where with just the RSTOL, it might not have been as much fun. Usually what happened there, since this was close to the water, was you'd just settle back into the water, which in a tight place like those meant cut the power and taxi back for another try.

Or take a nap.

MTV

mtv wrote:

Fraser Farmer wrote:

mtv wrote:

Fraser Farmer wrote:Hi Phil,
Did you end up adding the Sportsman cuff to your Robertson equipped 185? If so, how do you like that combination?
Thanks
Matt

Matt,

I got to be the guinea pig for this mod combination on a 185 I’d flown ~ 2000 hours at the time. Our aircraft folks wanted to try a Sportsman cuff on an RSTOL equipped 185.

So, they hired an experienced shop to install the Sportsman kit on the 185 I was assigned. I was sort of skeptical, but open to a fair trial.

I was REALLY impressed. I’d flown a few Sportsman equipped planes, but this was the first with before and after experience. The airplane became much more stable and forgiving at very high angle of attack. As you likely know, RSTOL airplanes can exhibit somewhat abrupt breaks in the stall, when pushed hard. The Sportsman pretty much did away with that characteristic. Plane just mushed into a sink. You could maneuver it hard, and it’d hang on, but sink mightily.

The result was the ability to actually approach and land slower, because the plane was much more solid and predictable at those high angles.

A totally unexpected additional benefit was that the Sportsman kit gave me back a bit of the aileron effectiveness lost with the RSTOL kit. That doubtless had to do with the aileron gap seals in the kit. Not huge, but definitely noticeable.

If I owned an RSTOL equipped plane now, first thing I’d do is install a Sportsman.

MTV

Mike,
Thanks for your knowledgeable input. I feel like I've never yet asked a Skywagon question where you haven't had experience in the exact configuration I'm asking about! What I'm actually wondering about is float performance of that configuration. Did you feel the RSTOL shortened up the takeoff run on floats? If you had the Sportsman would the RSTOL be a good add? I see they still sell the RSTOL kit although everyone seems to do the WingX now.
Matt

I honestly don't know how much or even if the Sportsman addition to that RSTOL 185 shortened up the float takeoffs. That's kind of a tough evaluation. What it DID do, however, is allowed me to get airborne and hang in ground effect better at slow speeds and in gusty conditions. The RSTOL allows the plane to fly at remarkably slow speeds.....the Sportsman makes it more stable at those slower speeds, thus allowing you to USE that RSTOL performance with more confidence, particularly in sketchy conditions. Which effectively, reduced the takeoff distance, I guess....

I had a couple of places I went in and out of with that plane on floats that were really narrow oxbow sloughs, surrounded by tall trees. In a wind, those places were easy to land in, but really spooky to launch out of. I slept in the airplane in those places a few times because I was dumb enough to land there in a breeze to pick up a load, then had to think better of whether to try a takeoff.

The Sportsman didn't really permit takeoff in much more wind, but when you took off in gusty conditions, the plane would launch and hang on, sometimes by its fingernails, where with just the RSTOL, it might not have been as much fun. Usually what happened there, since this was close to the water, was you'd just settle back into the water, which in a tight place like those meant cut the power and taxi back for another try.

Or take a nap.

MTV

Stable low speed flying is a great thing. I guess logically if it can fly slower there's more lift and this should translate into shorter takeoffs. It is tough to tell though, with so many variables float flying.

What do you guys pay up there for a shop to install the sportsman LE, roughly? I wonder how much value these mods add to the plane vs cost to install. Still rocking the stock wing and honestly not doing enough STOL stuff to get excited about it. Landplane only, no floats. People say there is no cruise penalty for these mods but that seems hard to believe.

atypicalguy wrote:What do you guys pay up there for a shop to install the sportsman LE, roughly? I wonder how much value these mods add to the plane vs cost to install. Still rocking the stock wing and honestly not doing enough STOL stuff to get excited about it. Landplane only, no floats. People say there is no cruise penalty for these mods but that seems hard to believe.

I can't help you with the cost of a Sportsman these days. Call Will Stene, who owns the STC, and I suspect he can give you pretty good ball parks for various places.

Value added vs cost to install?? I doubt it'd appreciate that much overnight, but maybe. If I were shopping, I would absolutely consider adding that much to the price of a plane for an installed Sportsman kit. Bottom line would be that I'd be adding the kit myself right after I bought the plane anyway, so.....

If there is a cruise penalty, it has to be pretty small, so small it's difficult to impossible to detect. Frankly, atmospherics likely have more effect on cruise speed, so detecting such a small change might be impossible, or at least really hard to detect without totally controlling variables.

It's tiny, in other words, if it exists.

As I noted in my earlier post, the Sportsman significantly tames the stall behaviour of the Cessna wing. And, believe me, I don't believe the Cessna wing has an ugly stall behaviour at all. But, they will roll off, and fairly abrupt breaks are not uncommon in the stall. And, as I noted before, the Sportsman really eliminates most if not all of that behaviour.

I recently did a flight review with an instructor who'd never been in a plane with the sportsman, but had quite a bit of Cessna experience. He asked me to do a series of stalls. Finally, he asked for a power on stall. We wound up extreme nose up, about 90% power, and sinking. Nose waaaay up in the air. The CFI was amazed and asked me what it'd take to get it to break. I eased the back pressure a bit, then abruptly pulled the yoke to the stop again. Nose bobbed, then lowered to about the horizon, bobbed again, sank a bit more.....just wanting to fly.

It is an amazing kit. If you followed the AOPA Cessna 170 modification for the giveaway plane, look for one of the last flights they did in the plane, with an old time CFI and examiner. He really put that wing to the test, and frankly, the AOPA person in the right seat looked pretty uncomfortable. But, nothing quick nothing ugly.

MTV

atypicalguy wrote:What do you guys pay up there for a shop to install the sportsman LE, roughly? I wonder how much value these mods add to the plane vs cost to install. Still rocking the stock wing and honestly not doing enough STOL stuff to get excited about it. Landplane only, no floats. People say there is no cruise penalty for these mods but that seems hard to believe.

Typically it takes me 20 to 30 hours to install a set on a stock wing. Depends on if I'm painting anything or just installing bare. Shop rate is $60 an hour soon to go up to $65. I have done about 10 so far from 170's to a 206.

--Brian