A1Skinner wrote:

Barnstormer wrote:BAS Tail Pull. If all goes well this is tonight's mod. Requires a skinny guy to go into the tail.

I'm good at that kind of stuff...

Heh. You might get me into the baggage compartment, but I’d probably get stuck much past there!

#ChunkyMonkey

Barnstormer wrote:That is cool stuff hotrod. I didn't know there were other options, I'll bookmark those, thanks.

Things are painted, next the install. Pleased for sure.

One thing to consider is to disassemble those adapters every few years or so and change the O-Rings. The O-Rings can dry out, crack, etc, and water can go through that venue, not just the caps themselves.

MTV

As a new 180 owner I was thinking after we bought it that I would get some blankets/pillows to lay in the belly and maybe crawl back there to inspect (at 6'2" 220 lbs ) and maybe wipe things down and clean up anything that needed it. When I opened up the cover to take a peek behind the extended baggage I thought how in the hell does anybody get back there over all the cables, and, once installed, get to anything past that tube once it is installed????

Oh, and I am enjoying this thread. ESPECIALLY since it is not my money.

Flying Dave wrote:As a new 180 owner I was thinking after we bought it that I would get some blankets/pillows to lay in the belly and maybe crawl back there to inspect (at 6'2" 220 lbs ) and maybe wipe things down and clean up anything that needed it. When I opened up the cover to take a peek behind the extended baggage I thought how in the hell does anybody get back there over all the cables, and, once installed, get to anything past that tube once it is installed????

Oh, and I am enjoying this thread. ESPECIALLY since it is not my money.

You hire a 6', 150 lb guy to work on it. Haha. At school I looked around and thought most guys can't get into small planes. Me, I fit down the tail easy, and I'm not clausterphobic which helps. Good light is important.

Barnstormer wrote: BAS Tail Pull. If all goes well this is tonight's mod. Requires a skinny guy to go into the tail.

I installed one of these in my taildragger C150D.
You think it's tight in a 180.... try it in an omnivision model Cessna.

Barnstormer wrote:

Phil, Im confused as to the pic... What is that ring that is screwed on the outside of the skin? The tail pull handle should be riveted and the entire assy on the inside. Looking from the outside, there should just be a hole and 6 rivets.

I'd also recommend opening up that center hole much more. Otherwise it will scratch the handle... but more importantly, when force is applied, it will deform the ID of that hole. We use the inside of the tail pull hole as the guide, then open up a bit more.

Bigrenna wrote:

Barnstormer wrote:

Phil, Im confused as to the pic... What is that ring that is screwed on the outside of the skin? The tail pull handle should be riveted and the entire assy on the inside. Looking from the outside, there should just be a hole and 5 rivets.

I'd also recommend opening up that center hole much more. Otherwise it will scratch the handle... but more importantly, when force is applied, it will deform the ID of that hole. We use the inside of the tail pull hole as the guide, then open up a bit more.

The last one I installed had 6 rivets per side.
But I was surprised to see screws as well Phil. I'm guessing it's because you didnt want to touch up paint the rivet heads? That's pretty minor to have a proper and tight fit...

Me thinks Mr. Barnstormer has employed a "doubler" thereby sandwiching the skin between the welded flange of the BAS setup. The screws seem like a unique idea and if the equivalent shear value is retained it would/could simplify the install considerably. On a certified airframe BAS would have to support their use I believe or some sort of approval. I am about to undertake the same install and I'm intrigued by this idea, little "out of the box" thinking and I like it !!

Mapleflt

Make sure that the guy who is inside bucking has good foamy ear plugs AND ear muffs! Incredibly noisy inside that sound chamber! Dont ask me how I know.

Pardon me, say again please !!!!

Mapleflt wrote:Pardon me, say again please !!!!

HUH??????

Looks like Barnstormer used screws instead of rivets. I helped my friend install but he used rivets. Also ran the rivet gun when he did the extended baggage and he really really wanted me to be careful Ha!!!!

Tail pull installation. I wondered if anyone would catch what was going on, and I'm not talking about the screws.

First, on the original Cessna factory sales order (plane ordered by Wipaire) is a line that reads:

42 HANDLES TAILCONE LIFT 40.00 30.00 [List price and dealer price]

and on the Cessna factory Weight & Balance and Installed Equipment Data is a line that reads:

HANDLES TAILCONE LIFT .7 [weight] 182.0 [Arm] 127 [Moment]

And on the pilot side is the plate you see (was riveted on) and on the co-pilot side is a flush mount plate at least two times the size. They are both in the exact location I wanted the BAS tail pull installed (and where it wanted to be), and I'm assuming this was where Cessna had installed a tail pull. Interesting thing is even though the tail pull is on those two Cessna factory sheets, it doesn't exist in their parts manual so I'm assuming it was manufactured by someone else and Cessna installed it at the factory. One plate being bigger then the other makes me think perhaps the original tail pull came out only on the pilot's side. Anyone remember seeing something like this?

As far as the screws are concerned, that was a field expedient for not having a compressor handy. At some point I'll change them out for rivets, next time we are in the tail.

Also removed the tail wheel lock cable as part of this process. One long cable. Weight savings. And speaking of weight savings while at the Airmen's show yesterday I saw and held Titanium. Crap, more money to spend going forward. After seeing what's available combined with the other things I've got planned I think loosing 150+ pounds is definitely doable, albiet expensive.

I also talked with Dynon and they told me that inside 12 months they expect to have the Skyview STC'd for the 185. Which means the new panel will consist of a compass, the Skyview, a Dynon radio, and a backup Dynon Atitude Indicator (although they are trying to get the FAA to drop that requirement). Center stack will contain a transponder and the iPad mini. And that's it! I'm super excited for this.

Oh and Greg, I pulled the handle out for a photo before we relieved the hole a bit. Thanks for the comment though, and that goes for all of you.

A tip on the handles: I have orange safety tape wrapping the ends of mine, which has kept me from bumping into them with my....um....upper thighs.

Installation tip-- hoist the tail up into level attitude. Much easier to shinny backwards out the tailcone when you're not trying to go uphill at the same time.

Looking real good!

Don’t worry about having fasteners on the handles. I have flown four wagons that had them installed with screws (including mine). The installation instructions say that you can use stainless steel machine screws. You can sorta see it on step #7 in the pic.

Barnstormer wrote:

If it was me I wouldn’t change them out for rivets unless I was removing the external ring/doubler/thing.

My 73 185 had the factory installed tail cone handles, came out both sides. I installed the BAS handles in a 170B, used screws so that I could take the handle out if extensive work was ever need on the aft bulkhead.

Tim

hotrod180 wrote:Installation tip-- hoist the tail up into level attituds. Much easier tk shinny backwards out the tailckne when youre not trying to go uphill at the same time.

Level attitude? On 29's? Need a 12 foot ladder just to reach the baggage door! But hey, I'm not the one crawling in the tail.

bat443 wrote:My 73 185 had the factory installed tail cone handles, came out both sides. I installed the BAS handles in a 170B, used screws so that I could take the handle out if extensive work was ever need on the aft bulkhead.

Wish I could find a picture of what they looked like. And who supplied them to Cessna. Hadn't considered leaving as is so they could be removed for easier crawl access. But hey, I'm not the one crawling in the tail.

Good idea.

FWIW there are other pull handles than BAS.
Mine had a BAS pull-handle install logged, but no STC.
I called BAS to get a copy of the STC, but they had no records of selling one for my tailnumber airplane.
They told me to look into the end of one handle, and if I could see through to the other side- it wasn't a BAS kit.
Sure enough, it wasn't a BAS kit. Dunno who made it though.
I've also seen a pull handle arrangement on skywagons where there was an eye on the ends of the pull handles.

My airplane has a set of holes above and aft (as I recall) of the BAS handles, which have been flush-patched.
I assume that was for some sort of pull handles, don't know what elese they might be for.
I've seen another skywagon or two with the same flash-patched holes in the same place too.
Here's a photo-- any ideas?