Your problem is that you have a Chevy that is stranded at a Ferrari dealership. I think you need to make a few phone calls to Schellville airport and Sonoma airport, which are within 20 or 30 miles of Napa. Somebody at one of those two airports will be able to help you. Removing the wings, flat-bedding it over to Schellville, installing a cylinder, and reinstalling the wings should still cost you less than $4000.

I'd have to agree with others here and say that getting it onto the right airport is the first priority. Because the ESTIMATE from the Jet place can change once they find a pebble embedded in your upholstery, etc. There are several far more experienced mechanics on this forum, and they can all feel free to correct me, but having a Part 61 airplane annualled and repaired by a 135 or 121 maintenance facility does not strike me as a cost-effective option.

With all due respects to the professionals at most jet centers, BTW. They are very highly trained and talented people, and are focused on safety, and focused on doing a good job. It's just that their normal methods and practices are oriented for a different mission, under a different set of rules, than most small GA shops.

EZFlap wrote:Your problem is that you have a Chevy that is stranded at a Ferrari dealership. I think you need to make a few phone calls to Schellville airport and Sonoma airport, which are within 20 or 30 miles of Napa. Somebody at one of those two airports will be able to help you. Removing the wings, flat-bedding it over to Schellville, installing a cylinder, and reinstalling the wings should still cost you less than $4000.

I'd have to agree with others here and say that getting it onto the right airport is the first priority. Because the ESTIMATE from the Jet place can change once they find a pebble embedded in your upholstery, etc. There are several far more experienced mechanics on this forum, and they can all feel free to correct me, but having a Part 61 airplane annualled and repaired by a 135 or 121 maintenance facility does not strike me as a cost-effective option.

With all due respects to the professionals at most jet centers, BTW. They are very highly trained and talented people, and are focused on safety, and focused on doing a good job. It's just that their normal methods and practices are oriented for a different mission, under a different set of rules, than most small GA shops.

Maybe even check out Sonoma Skypark. They may be some small time guys there that can help.

I hope you can find a good IA on the field who can get you an annual & install a jug for less than $4k! Keep looking, wing removal would defiantly be a good 2nd option.

mtv wrote:Most radial engines aren't gear driven.
MTV

Sorry Mike,

P&W R-1535, R-1690, R-1830, R-2000, Bristol Centaurus, Hispano... to name a few. As for other warbirds there's the Allison V-1740 & V-3420, Rolls Merlin & Griffon. Ya can't spin a prop that large without reduction gears. Most multi-row & some single row radials ARE driven thru pinion or planetary type reductions. A friend of mine has a T-6 with a 9cyl - reduction box - 3blade prop, has a very cool, distinctive whistle when it goes bye.

desmo wrote:....the a/c is not flyable right now as it blew the head off of the one cylinder- must have eaten a valve. All compressions at the last annual were in the 70's.

Ok, now the plot thickens a little. The original post stated "700 smoh, needs a cylinder" which gives me the impression that one cylinder is a little soft. That's a different scenario than "blew the head off of one cylinder- must have eaten a valve". Just replacing the cylinder doesn't address any debris that might have made its way down into the lower end, or that the engine might have pumped all it's oil overboard & ended up dry before making it to the nearest suitable landing site after the cylinder failure. Possible additional engine damage might be something to think about.

Thanks Gents. I've been talking with Kenny Faeth in Sacramento- he hooked me up with the fellow to help with the wing pull. I'm going to give him a ring today and see if he has any suggestions.

I think I've read on this forum that there's a fellow in WA state with six 175's. I'm going to try and find him- he should know a thing or two. I'm not adverse to dragging the plane up there either. The trailer I bought was cheap enough that I should be able to make some money it and pay for my fuel.

I do see fixing as much in US as possible as being the most cost effective route. Even if that means bringing down a replacement engine.

Bit of background I didn't include earlier- the fellow I bought the 175 from is in Texas and was trying to have it fixed in Napa so that he could fly it home. He got a $900 quote from a local guy to go and fix it on field. When the mechanic got there the Jet Ctr wouldn't let him work on it. He then asked them for a quote and that's where the $4k quote came from. That quote didn't include any other engine work other than replacing the cylinder and associated maintenance. The fellow in Texas then got frustrated and decided to unload the plane. So, he's sent me the parts to fix and I just have to figure out the rest...

Pete

With a blown cylinder, I'd be inclined to split the case and inspect everything. If you have time and can be actively involved, and have a mechanic that will let you help, good on you. But until that thing comes apart I would not run it. Mechanic sorts on here might be able to tell me why it isn't needed...but my first thought is like hotrod's. Tread carefully.

I know nothing about the jet center. But I would talk to them about the airplane, get their opinion on what they would need to do to make it airworthy, and the estimated cost, myself. I wasn't clear if you had done that or if you had only taken the experience of the former owner.

It may be that they are the wrong people to do the work and you should move the plane to get it to the right person. But it may also be that they are giving a price for what really needs to happen, instead of just slapping on a cylinder. They might be the right people.

Is it a private airport owned by the Jet Center? I can understand them not letting another mechanic come work on it if it is being stored or tied down with them, otherwise it's not their call. If it is kept with them, get it moved to the transient ramp or something and have any mechanic you want to go work on it.

Tadpole wrote:Is it a private airport owned by the Jet Center? I can understand them not letting another mechanic come work on it if it is being stored or tied down with them, otherwise it's not their call. If it is kept with them, get it moved to the transient ramp or something and have any mechanic you want to go work on it.

I've heard of airports where there were issues with independent machanics working on airplanes. I don't know if they can prohibit it except on the basis of the mechanic not having a city/county/state business license. Maybe rent a hangar to keep the mechanicking low profile?

desmo wrote:....I think I've read on this forum that there's a fellow in WA state with six 175's. I'm going to try and find him- he should know a thing or two. I'm not adverse to dragging the plane up there either.....

Bruce Armstrong, Port Orchard WA. Don't know if he works on other's airplanes or not, but I think he is pretty knowledgable about C175's.

Splitting the case on a geared engine opens up a new rule book I believe. If distant fuzzy memory serves... a mechanic cannot do that in the field, it has to go to an engine shop if it is a geared engine... which the Go-Go 300 is.

Splitting the case to address a possible inflight failure could be a game changer... can one of the more experienced engine mechanics on the forum verify or correct me on this?

If the 1980's didn't take out too many of my brain cells, and my memory is correct that you can't do a field overhaul on that engine, then shipping down the spare engine from Alberta to Sonoma Skypark or Schellville and swapping out the FWF is likely a better option. Then you can send the original engine to Al Ball and have him build you a spare. Your 175 with two usable engines and reasonable care might last you a lifetime.

Any A&P can overhaul a geared engine with a spur gear reduction, ie GO-300, even a GTSIO-520. An IA is required to overhaul the reduction gear box on a planetary gear reduction engine, ie a Lyc GSO-480. Of course an appropriately rated certificated repairman at a repair station could do either without a A&P or an IA.

Tim

Well, as of now, I think I'm going to stick with going down with my trailer, popping the wings off and towing it home.

After talking with the Jet Ctr, it will be next to impossible to do any major work at that airport unless I hire them or obtain an insurance policy so I'll be faced with pulling the wings anyway. The quote from them for 4k was to bring the A/C to ferriable condition only. Swapping out a jug and flying it home no longer seems like a great idea given the unknown following the head separation. I have actually asked for them to quote swapping out the whole engine with my spare but haven't gotten that quote yet.

In addition, if I go ahead and perform a bunch of maintenance and repairs south of the border there is a chance that it may not pass transport Canada's white glove test. If I fix it at home I know it'll be done as per their standards as my mechanic will be working with them on that and he's imported several aircraft.

There are too many unknowns here. If it was a plane that I knew and had a history with I would feel more comfortable fixing down south. But the reality is, I don't know the plane and I don't know much about the legalities involved with US ferrying, insurance or a cdn pilot obtaining a US license, etc., etc.. I could end up getting stuck down there waiting for parts or paperwork. This way too, my wife and son can come along and we can have a leisurely holiday in CA and pick up a Cessna while we're at it! So that's my plan...today. We'll see what tomorrow holds...

EZFlap wrote: Your problem is that you have a Chevy that is stranded at a Ferrari dealership.....

I agree. Generally speaking, I think it's probably wise for those of us in "little aviation" to avoid any place that has the word "jet" in it's name. Unless you've got too much money & want them to fix that for ya.

It's a shame that it come to this but I think you went through the right steps to process it to this point. Good luck on all that and be very methodical about how you put it on the trailer. You could end up causing more damage without a plan. Take tools with you and get a bunch of opinions and advice before you go.

The problem of buying an ultra cheap airplane is that often it costs ultra big money to make it a good airplane--whether it's an engine or airframe or otherwise. I'm familiar with a 182 that is presently in pieces, which the owner bought for a really, really cheap price (around $25K as I recall) although it looked good cosmetically. Paint covers a lot of ills, and this one has so much that if he gets it together for less than an additional $40K, I'll be surprised--and if he'd done his home work, he could have bought a pretty good 182 without all of the hassle for no more money.

I wish you well. A 175 is fundamentally a pretty good airplane, but I don't think your whole experience will be inexpensive.

Cary

Emory Bored wrote:It's a shame that it come to this but I think you went through the right steps to process it to this point. Good luck on all that and be very methodical about how you put it on the trailer. You could end up causing more damage without a plan. Take tools with you and get a bunch of opinions and advice before you go.

Will do. The fellow helping me works for Faeth and dismantles/trailers aircraft regularly. I'm bringing loads of straps, extra blocks of wood to be screwed to the deck as chocks, rolls of foam and underpad and a good variety of tools.

double post...

Cary wrote:The problem of buying an ultra cheap airplane is that often it costs ultra big money to make it a good airplane--whether it's an engine or airframe or otherwise. I'm familiar with a 182 that is presently in pieces, which the owner bought for a really, really cheap price (around $25K as I recall) although it looked good cosmetically. Paint covers a lot of ills, and this one has so much that if he gets it together for less than an additional $40K, I'll be surprised--and if he'd done his home work, he could have bought a pretty good 182 without all of the hassle for no more money.

I wish you well. A 175 is fundamentally a pretty good airplane, but I don't think your whole experience will be inexpensive.

Cary

Inexpensive is relative. Importing any aircraft, in any condition can be full of surprises and very, very expensive. I could be buying a $40k 175 and end up spending huge bucks to make it legal here. Starting out with a $5k 175 gives me a little more distance to the ceiling.

This thing has impeccable logs, a major priority when importing. Also, it has been closely looked at by the Jet ctr and Faeth aircraft and, other than the sick engine gets a fairly clean bill of health. Both parties feel that it's a solid airplane and it won't take much to get it flying.

I'm meeting with my mechanic next week. I'm hoping that he'll let me work with him on the engine swap and wing re-attachment and that he'll understand my not wanting to turn a bargain into a big buck endeavor. I think he will...


Pete

L-19 wrote:I hope you can find a good IA on the field who can get you an annual & install a jug for less than $4k! Keep looking, wing removal would defiantly be a good 2nd option.

mtv wrote:Most radial engines aren't gear driven.
MTV

Sorry Mike,

P&W R-1535, R-1690, R-1830, R-2000, Bristol Centaurus, Hispano... to name a few. As for other warbirds there's the Allison V-1740 & V-3420, Rolls Merlin & Griffon. Ya can't spin a prop that large without reduction gears. Most multi-row & some single row radials ARE driven thru pinion or planetary type reductions. A friend of mine has a T-6 with a 9cyl - reduction box - 3blade prop, has a very cool, distinctive whistle when it goes bye.

Um, I was referring to ones that are currently and in past in operation in numbers higher than one. As in P/W 985 D/H Beaver, Beech 17, etc, P/W 1820 DC-1, DC-2, DC-3 early numbers, etc (and yes, some of those were gear driven, which is why virtually every Single Otter on the planet now wears a turbine), P/W 2800 P-47, F-6F, F-7F, F-8, and a dozen others, P/W 4360 a bunch of big transports--C-124, KC-97, and of course, the Super Corsairs, All the Continental radials-- Stearman, Jacobs Radials--Cessna 190/195, etc, Kinner Radials, Warner Radials--Cessna Airmasters, etc, and a thousand others that were not gear driven.

Most of the P/W radials were produced in both a direct drive and geared configuration. Look around today, and most of the ones you'll see today are the direct drive models, though there are still some geared engines around.

V-12s don't count in a discussion of radial engines, by the way....
Etc.

MTV

mtv wrote:

L-19 wrote:I hope you can find a good IA on the field who can get you an annual & install a jug for less than $4k! Keep looking, wing removal would defiantly be a good 2nd option.

mtv wrote:Most radial engines aren't gear driven.
MTV

Sorry Mike,

P&W R-1535, R-1690, R-1830, R-2000, Bristol Centaurus, Hispano... to name a few. As for other warbirds there's the Allison V-1740 & V-3420, Rolls Merlin & Griffon. Ya can't spin a prop that large without reduction gears. Most multi-row & some single row radials ARE driven thru pinion or planetary type reductions. A friend of mine has a T-6 with a 9cyl - reduction box - 3blade prop, has a very cool, distinctive whistle when it goes bye.

Um, I was referring to ones that are currently and in past in operation in numbers higher than one. <snip> P/W 2800 P-47, F-6F, F-7F, F-8, and a dozen others,

V-12s don't count in a discussion of radial engines, by the way....
Etc.

MTV

OK. An observation about the R2800 as long as we're off topic. Bradford F Hagie,(pronounced Haggy) the WWII pilot who I'm buying my Luscombe from, told me that he flew an F6F for one and a half HOURS with one of the top cylinders in the back row missing it's head. He couldn't make it back to the Lexington so he had to land on the first carrier he found. But he made it. I asked him how much oil it had in it when he landed and he said "how the hell should I know, must have been just enough though". He also related that the skipper of the flat top he landed on was angry because he wasn't authorized to land there and threatened to court marshal him. The admiral had to straighten it out. (hard to tell who this might have been, there were 43 admirals in the WWII US fleet in both theaters. ) I know from my own research that later in the war it became the norm for damaged aircraft to land on the first carrier of opportunity. I suspect that that policy change may have come about at least in part because of Brad. In most cases, these aircraft were simply pushed overboard. F6Fs were worth $86,000. Pilots were worth about $200,000. Or so I've read.