Since the clothespin thread got so much action, I thought I would post another thing I have been doing when flying...

Along with the helmet, pretty much every time I go flying, I have been trying to wear this Nomex shirt I picked up from Gibson & Barnes. Its comfy and has a nice fit. I make it a point to wear only cotton and don't use anything synthetic, especially jackets. Wearing a complete flight suit was a stretch for me, so this was a good compromise. I suppose I get some goofy looks from my fellow pilots, but since I am trying to push the edges (at least for my comfort level) I really just don't care. Safety first...

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/ufs-294909 ... hirts.html

I wore a nomex flight suit for the 40 hour test flight period in my experimental. I always wanted a nomex coat for winter but every time I start looking for one I get discouraged with the prices. I don't wear nylon clothing while flying.

Bigrenna,

That shirt looks pretty cool (IMO) and fairly comfortable. I wear cotton t-shirts under my nomex. It's a nice way to keep it comfy and retain flame retard... retarditity?

Yes to No(Mex)

I try to wear it as often as practical and have a couple of Nomex items that come in handy.

Flight suit is nice, especially during colder weather. It has a lot of pockets for safety stuff.

Also, Massif products are great. I have a jacket and pants from the Fire and Ice line.

Gloves are handy, but I find they wear out relatively quickly.

CamTom12 wrote:Bigrenna,

That shirt looks pretty cool (IMO) and fairly comfortable. I wear cotton t-shirts under my nomex. It's a nice way to keep it comfy and retain flame retard... retarditity?

retardedness? Hmmmm.....maybe "and retain some level of physical protection in the event of an inflight fire"...... or something like that. It's amazing when you think about it how willing we all are to spend big bucks on headsets and stuff and yet how reluctant we seem to be about buying nomex. Well, it's noisy in the airplane ALL the time but it only catches fire in there once in awhile. What about our passengers? I've got two flight suits but it will be a cold day in hell when my wife crawls into one. A guy really should look for something fashionable to put his lady in I suppose. I remember a million years ago at the Watsonville fly in when the Antique Airplane Association still had it there was a couple that used to show up in a pair of what looked to be tailored khaki jump suits with red cotton shirts sticking out the collar. I wonder if those were nomex? That's the kind of thing my missus would go for. Anyway; thoughtful topic.

EB

EB,

Agreed.

Also, anyone that's looking for a good set of fire retardant cold weather gloves, check out OR. I've got a pair I've been wearing almost non-stop for 3 years. They're just now starting to separate at the fingertips and I do a lot of button-pressing and sharp item handling in them.

For any of you guys wanting relatively priced nomex flight gear try to hit up a local military bases Thrift store. Some people may give you funny looks wearing military gear but its your butt that might be getting fried not theirs.You can occasionally find flight suits, flight jackets, gloves etc. that are used and sometimes nearly in new condition for pennies on the dollar. I have gotten all this stuff cheaply. Just an FYI.
Keith

I hope many of you are not laboring under a misconception about Nomex. It is fine stuff and I wear it a lot. Mine was all free to me. It is not magic stuff, it simply has the property of charring and not sustaining combustion. It really is not much more effective over good cotton, like Levis unless you wear the underwear as well. You need insulation as well as a non-melting fabric. Nomex and cotton both wash out of burns about as well. The military is obsessed with the stuff for several reasons, 1. In the Air Force & Army it is a uniform (in the Navy it is issue gear), 2. they have other items that tend to combust or flash burn around them in the work environment, 3. they fly stuff that is far more unreliable and you can exit them Buck Rogers style instead of the door 4.people on the ground, in certain situation, are obsessed with making their aircraft less reliable.

In light civilian aircraft, there is not a huge variation in accidents. They tend to be minor or full blown Viking Funeral. So dressing in Cotton, preferably with layers, will serve you almost as well. In flight cabin fires, like the good old Spitfire, are somewhat rare. I do like wearing gloves, learned to fly wearing them, so are accustom to the feel, aside from the protection. Your feet, ankles and hands and wrist, are the most vulnerable to fire damage. The tendons are right at the skin. Burns in those locations can make you a cripple. Burning your neck is also a bad thing. Many of you should look up the military film, "Learn not to Burn." It is gross, the guy doing the narration is fabulous and burned so badly in his accident that he makes Freddy Kruger look like a sex symbol. It dispels many of the myths and makes you center on what is actually important.

So if you want protect yourself, and not look like a frustrated fighter pilot. Get Nomex long underwear, wear a COTTON turtleneck (there are Nomex ones available, but are kind of uncomfortable), Nomex summer gloves or the two part Winter Flying Gloves along with wool socks. You can wear this under your normal street clothes, as long as they are natural fibers. Not wearing a helmet, along with a skullcap, will defeat much of this gear's protective features (kind of the fire version of: great body, "Butterface").

If you don't mind the looks, flight suits are great, they are designed to sit in for long periods and have loads of well placed pockets. Just don't forget to keep the collar flipped up, not down.

Here's a good deal on Nomex longjohns. $18 for two pair, size XL only. Unfortunately, the long-sleeve aramid mock Tnecks were already sold out.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/2-new-us-military-surplus-flyers-aramid-drawers-white.aspx?a=947361

I just ordered a couple, and will see how comfortable they turn out to be.

Just a stupid question from the same kind of person!!
If I am flying along @ 2-10,000' in my bugsmasher STOL, and am suddenly on fire!!
What is Nomex going to do for me??
There was a Guide quite a few years ago north of Fairbanks flying along with 2 hunters @ about 3000' agl in his trusty Helio Courier when all of a sudden he was on fire! It is a really terrible listen to his radio transmissions until the wing burnt off!!
Not sure if anyone can find the recording or not??
But in the few minutes they had, Nomex would not have mattered.
Now maybe if I screw up a take off or a landing and catch on fire the nomex would help???
Only if I was able to get out??
Like someone said above, I think it is a really big Hype!
Just my $.02
And for sure that's more than it's worth.

GT

M6RV6 wrote:What is Nomex going to do for me??

I think it is a really big Hype!
Just my $.02
GT

It's not my day job, but I mentioned before I do some work as a paramedic in a busy system along with some wilderness medicine. I wasn't on the call, but some of my peers responded to a heli accident nearby. It took 3 departments to bushwhack in and extract the pilot. My girlfriend knew the daughter of the pilot. He was horribly burned over most of his body as a result of the crash, suffered incredibly for about a week, then died. It put the price of the shirt into perspective.

Just sayin...

GT[/quote]

M6RV6 wrote:Just a stupid question from the same kind of person!!
If I am flying along @ 2-10,000' in my bugsmasher STOL, and am suddenly on fire!!
What is Nomex going to do for me??

GT

Parachute

Nomex, or any of the fire RESISTANT fabrics are, as others have said, designed to provide protection in essentially two ways:

1) They'll help protect you from the effects of a flash fire. These materials are not designed to protect you from HEAT, only from flame.

2) They char instead of melt, like poly propylene does. Poly pro is REALLY bad stuff in a fire, cause it melts into your skin, or what's left of it, and complicates the healing process.

So, what's the stuff good for? In the event that you make a mistake on a takeoff, and clip a tree...airplane cartwheels, and ends up back on the ground. You're a little beat up, but basically intact. Then the fire starts.....The Nomex or natural fibers gives you a LITTLE protected time to get out of the fire. Not much, but a little, and you WILL be motivated to exit at that point anyway.

I order Nomex long johns from Flight Suits Ltd, though the sets I have are now seven or eight years old, and worn regularly in winter....they last forever. These are designed for the racing car crowd, quite different from the mil spec waffle weave long johns.

I like the long johns, with wool over them if possible in winter. In summer, I just stick with cotton. Not the best in a cool weather survival situation, but... Don't wear Nomex over top of Poly Pro long johns.....

Don't forget that the liklihood of fire is pretty low, and the likelihood of having to survive out in the woods for a day or so is probably more likely. So, dress comfortably, but at least give some thought to what sort of clothing would work best on the ground in the country over which you're flying.

I can introduce you to a gent who crashed a Super Cub in winter out by Huslia, and it burned. He was wearing Carharrt coveralls, and the nylon liners torched. The neck of that coverall acted like a stovepipe. He was burned pretty badly, but survived. I think he'd advocate nomex or something like it. It would only take one of those deals to ruin your weekends.

MTV

bigrenna wrote:

M6RV6 wrote:What is Nomex going to do for me??

I think it is a really big Hype!
Just my $.02
GT

He was horribly burned over most of his body as a result of the crash, suffered incredibly for about a week, then died. It put the price of the shirt into perspective.

Just sayin...

50/50 on him makin it even if he had been wearin a shirt!!??
My thought s to his family and friends!!
Not saying anyone should or should not, just sayin a stupid person like me just does not see where it's ever going to help me. my choice, good or bad.
Nomex under your rubber hip waders?

Squash, have hauled 100's of hunters, fisherman, loggers, and rafters, never had a parashute either, or was in a position to use one if needed.
Just me!!
GT

mtv wrote:Nomex, or any of the fire RESISTANT fabrics are, as others have said, designed to provide protection in essentially two ways:

1) They'll help protect you from the effects of a flash fire. These materials are not designed to protect you from HEAT, only from flame.

2) They char instead of melt, like poly propylene does. Poly pro is REALLY bad stuff in a fire, cause it melts into your skin, or what's left of it, and complicates the healing process.

Don't forget that the liklihood of fire is pretty low, and the likelihood of having to survive out in the woods for a day or so is probably more likely. So, dress comfortably, but at least give some thought to what sort of clothing would work best on the ground in the country over which you're flying.

I can introduce you to a gent who crashed a Super Cub in winter out by Huslia, and it burned. He was wearing Carharrt coveralls, and the nylon liners torched. The neck of that coverall acted like a stovepipe. He was burned pretty badly, but survived. I think he'd advocate nomex or something like it. It would only take one of those deals to ruin your weekends.

MTV

Mike,
I really agree that you have to survive on the ground first, think about the fire second!

Spoke to Roger this spring, still going strong. One HELLUVA guy!!
Sometimes when you meet TOUGH it is in a pretty diminuative frame!!
GT

I have no grand illusions that nomex or any other fr fabric will save me if I make a smoking hole...
Nor do I care to suit up like a top gun wann be... Having said that, Here' s a worthy thought for some folks here to consider;

You can choose brands of FR clothing today from outfits like Drfire, Massif, UnderArmour, Carhart etc... That will do as good and usually better than the mil spec stuff... And not have a single person around you realize you are wearing FR clothing. I do every night.... but the best part, if you are a fly for hire type, you will need this clothing to safely do your job and won't want it mixed in with your everyday clothes so by definition, it becomes a uniform, and consequently a tax right off.
Now I figure I gotta wear something when I fly, and if Uncle Sam is gonna help foot the bill, why not get clothes that just might be of help when it all goes to pot...


Take care, Rob

One of the real stories of fire in the airplane was the thread titled "206 down near merrill". (Whatever happened to that pilot???)

I'm thinking about getting another pair of nomex gloves and putting them by the fire extinguisher in the hangar. No, they won't keep the wing from falling off. Like insurance, one hopes nomex is never needed, but in addition to flying, it could prove helpful on the ground as well. If I ever need to put out a fire or pull someone to safety, they might prove invaluable.

bigrenna wrote:

I don't think that shirt is that bad... you just look like some hipster from Portland (as long as you combine it with jeans and a beanie.)

Substitute one of those alpaca knit hats with earflaps for the plain-jane beanie, and add a pair of Converse Chuck Taylor All-Stars or berkenstocks.

Dog pilot dead on. Nomex is a waste of $ for "protection". It doesn't feel good in my opinion either. I looked at hard at it when I started dusting. No duster I know wears it and all the burn tests show Levi's are just as good if not just a tad better for fire protection. And it's measured in seconds. Like for a flash of flames and then gone. And yes your extremeties are your main concernsNot sustainable for any measured time a real fire. I would not wear or wear anything tho according to how you look. Wear what u want anytime. Who cares what people think. I fly in Hanes only most the time. badass thread on your 180 man. Thanks for your time. Good thing no one has an opinion on what to do or not do... Especially pilots. Lol. Have fun.