Yesterday, that got my attention! 50' and climbing then bam, power reduction to the teens. I swapped to the left and then it was business as normal. I flew for about 30 minutes with no further problems.
So I'm wondering if this is an issue with these planes???
I know that the fuel travels from the right tank, to the fuel selector on the Left side of the aircraft, the forward to the gascolator.

I cleaned the screens today (nothing) and fabbed a new fuel line. The old one was a little to long for my taste. But serviceable. I have done the fuel flow checks on this plane previously and they were good , but I will do them again tomorrow. Any ideas out there?

Very well known problem. You should have a placard on your dash about not Taking Off, Landing or Maneuvering on the right tank with less than 1/3 fuel. The right tank only has one pickup.

Best practice IMO is to T/O and Land on the left tank 100% of the time, even if the right tank is full.

I T/O on left and switch to the right when I level. Stay on the right tank until the engine sputters and then back to the left.

If I'm local and don't need more than 18 Gal, I put it all in the left.

Tradecraft
Thank you for your response, I am new to the Pacer. When I did my first engine run after filling the drained tanks with about 10 gallons of fuel the engine died when I swapped it over, and it was running on the right tank. It fired right up again on the left. That was a clue to me! Left tank it is! An old habit of mine is to fill the RH tank to offset my weight sitting on the left side.
Not in the Pacer!

Same with Colt. Right tank in Colt is a reserve. Not meant to be filled when carrying a passenger. I think there is a placard for TO&L on left and also for right as reserve only.

Read the PA-20 TCDS, in particular item 601 note 2b:
"(b) Adjacent to the fuel valve, (1) "Use right tank level flight only." Placard not required if aircraft revised per Piper Service Letter No. 145. "

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... LE/1A4.pdf

Yeah should be placarded below the right tank gauge and it is also described in the poh. Think of the left tank as main and right as aux.

Duh!
Right there on the selector valve,
"Right 18 gal. Level flight Only"
I'm going to find myself a POH and read it this time: )

New to the Short Wing,
Spend some time here too:

http://www.shortwingpipers.org


Bryan

Not casting stones here, but this is a great argument for a good checkout from someone familiar with the Aircraft before going out on your own.

I’ve done “self checkouts myself, and didn’t have problems (that I recognized anyway). But understanding your fuel system is important.

MTV

To me, the concept of "self checkout" is only viable after first spending plenty of time with the flight manual/POH--not just a cursory leaf-through. Too many airplanes have nuances that aren't readily obvious, but which are indeed covered in the manuals.

Cary

BJ,
Thanks for taking the time and being brave enough to share this experience.

I too have had the privilege of my right tank unporting during take off in my PA-22. It's better to be lucky then good but it helps to be both.

I recall my floats kissing the beach, looking down at my shaking knees, and noting my selector on the right tank. I know better. I use a checklist before every take off but I had become complacent, there is that word again.

There are many kinds of complacent and one is not becoming familure with your aircrafts POH. All kinds of good info in that little booklet: tire pressure, rigging instructions, short field technic, and yes proper fuel management.

My favorite is the Maule and all it's quick drains. I was in my second accident in six months with a guy who didn't know where they all were and NTSB found water I the fuel. Another buddy did his Maule on the tundra. To be honest there was a CFI in both cases that should have had their heads knocked together for all they were worth.

I know I know a little critical but WTF this is serious. As an A&P, IA, DOM I would get all kinds of questions where my first reply was, I don't know what does the POH say: cub, 206, DHCII, Garrett Otter...

So my rule is take off and land on the left tank unless the right is half full. That is my personal limit.

After I had shaken some of the shit out of my hip boots I took my plane back out on the pond and she wouldn't die on step at full power. At the end of the pond I did I high power nose high plow taxi not letting her get on step. Yep, she died. I recall being just as shaken up when the engine went silent there in the middle of the pond as I was up in the air but for a different reason. It was that feeling we get when we do something dangerously stupid and live to tell about it.

I like to think there is something redeeming in sharing these experiences in the hope we prevent someone from repeating them perhaps less secusefully.

Rocket

rocket wrote:
I too have had the privilege of my right tank unporting during take off in my PA-22.

Is it actually a case of unporting? Or is it a lack of head pressure at low fuel quantity because of the long horizontal run of fuel tubing across the top of the panel to the fuel selector valve?

I'm sure it must have been a case of low head pressure. The engine never quit, although I was pretty quick with the swap to Left. The left tank had less that 1/4 and the right was 5/8 (fullest tank syndrome)
I was slacking, "First mistake I made in 40 years of flying" NOT!
I'm thankful to the Lord it was not my last mistake. I hope there are more ahead, and they turn out as well. Left & Right with no Both, wouldn't have thought it could be complcated. I have never been a Piper fan.
I ended up with this Pacer because I couldn't sell it flying for 12K. They just don't bring any money. Case in Point I guess!. A buddy just had to have my 170A before I even got it out of the hangar. Got to have something to fly!
Thanks

mtv wrote:Not casting stones here, but this is a great argument for a good checkout from someone familiar with the Aircraft before going out on your own.

I’ve done “self checkouts myself, and didn’t have problems (that I recognized anyway). But understanding your fuel system is important.

MTV

Jeff Ethel and a P-38 are gone because of a no-checkout fuel mismanagement issue.

One of my greatest no-checkout moments was when I got hired by a shop to do a post maintenance test flight on a Piper Tomahawk. I was flying freight at the time for an operator that had just about every low-wing metal Piper airplane ever made in the fleet (except the Tomahawk). I had also flown most of the J Series and a couple of shortwings. I thought I knew Pipers.

I hopped up on the wing, climbed in and slid across to the left seat. I proceeded to commit aviation and do whatever the shop wanted and when I returned I slid over and hopped out the door onto the right wing. The mechanic came up and asked me what was wrong with the door. I said nothing was wrong. He asked why was I using the passenger door. I said, "Should I use the baggage door, smart guy?" At which point he goes over to the LEFT side of the plane and opens that door. So Piper built an airplane with a left side door. The Aerostar and some of the freighter Chieftans are the other ones that I can think of, but luckily I had a checkout in those before I embarrassed myself .

PMT
Now that's a funny story, although the only thing likely to get bent is your pride there. Since we are,
"I learned about flying from that"?
If you ever decide to take a Moondog around the patch (I don't know why you would:) Before you hook up the jumper cables, get out the POH and read the section on "starting" very carefully.

The left tank fuel line exits near the trailing edge of the tank on the Pacers. This is where the fuel will be when the plane is in a nose high attitude. That's where you want the fuel when taking off or trimmed for landing. The right tank lines exit about the middle of the tank. When nose high the right tank fuel outlet is no longer the lowest part of the tank and will have several unusable gallons remaining. This is the reason for the placard to used the left tank for takeoff and landing.

You can run both tanks dry in straight and level flight. Not sure the reason the right tank outlet is so far forward. If you do find yourself with a dry left tank and a low right tank, avoid long tail low approaches. There are a few minutes of fuel available in the lines after the tanks to get you though a landing flare.