Forgot to add. Max CHT goal is 360. After leaning, max EGT 1475.

(I use an EI engine analyzer)

Steve from Pponk called be after my engine arrived and wanted to know my starting technique. He didn't like my answer and told me not to pump the throttle until the prop is turning.

I prime it, start cranking and then pump the throttle about 1/4". Hot or cold, it fires up within 1 revolution. BTW, no prime when hot.

I just read this thread and gained some very useful info. I am running a IO520 in my 185 but just want to add my VERY strong feeling on one topic.
Engine monitors are a MUST on most any modern aircraft engine either carb or injected.
To fly without one is bad economy. Its a little more than the cost of a new jug.

On two occasions in the last year demonstrate this.

First was a 0-470 powered 182 jump plane. The engine was a recent factory OH with some 75 hours on it. The pilot, a good friend of mine, told me that one egt and cht temp was higher tan the rest and seemed to be getting worse. The mech had already checked all the intake clamps and all seemed fine. He insisted it be brought in again and checked. Yep. the mech found a intake gasket on the jug that was installed totally incorrectly and was the culprit. Continental was very reluctant to replace the jug and had their tech rep come to look at it. He was really pissed on how that could have left the factory that way and the fact it was in an area that was hard to see on a visual inspection further confirmed the use of a multiprobe monitor a must.

Second was two weeks ago when I flew with a friend to breakfast in his 172. He had a JPI gauge so naturally I had to play with it on the short flight.
One jug had an egt that was about 100* higher than the others. He said he doesn't look at it much other than oil temp. I told him we need to have a look see at the intake sleeves with the mech and naturally one had come loose.

The two things I think to take from these experiences is:

Get a engine monitor
Learn how to use it and then USE IT.

Tom

aqua wrote:Congratulations, you'll love it.

14 years and 1000+ hours on mine; here's a few ideas.

Start up:

OAT>40: 3 pumps of throttle first start, 1 pump when warm. Crack throttle, starts almost immediately.

OAT<40: 3 shots of primer, then as above. Always preheat <30, preferably < 40.

Taxi, warm-up:

Lean as possible, warm up to at least 150 CHT before run up.

Takeoff:

Max throttle. I've experimented with the rpm, and mine pulls slightly better at a twist less than max. (2600-50). If I'm leaving early, and am light, will do a noise abatement TO at 2500. Never do a reduced throttle TO, it reduces cooling.

Climb:

Max throttle, see above. 2500 RPM. If climbing to altitude, can lean it out a little going through 4-5000; from 20+ back to about 18 GPH.

Cruise:

Down low-2500/22" at 14.5 GPH. 2500/24" more like 15.5 GPH.
(Did you see the TCM service bulletin advising to run these at higher RPM's?) in any event, that's where mine is smoother.

At altitude you'll want full throttle to maintain whatever MP you can. However, if you back off the throttle just enough to see a slight drop in MP; I've found you can lean more effectively. As low as 11GPH up at 10000'. Most typical for me is 13 or so at 7-8000'.

Descent:

Very conservative on the descent planning, around 4:1 profile.

Taxi:

Lean aggressively.

Enjoy!

I have just read this thread and wanted to make some comments on starting. While pumping the throttle works, it can be risky. If you over do it, it can back fire through the Carb and start a fire. I have had this happen and seen it happen to others. If you do insist on pumping the throttle make sure you keep it turning until it starts, then if there is any backfire induced fire, it will suck it into the engine. Better to use a 6 point primer, WAIT 30 OR SO SECONDS for that fuel to atomize and it will start first or second compression, but waiting is the key. How many primes will depend on ambient temp. For us, after the first start and in a moderate climate it does not need any priming for the rest of the day.

JamieG wrote:
I have just read this thread and wanted to make some comments on starting. While pumping the throttle works, it can be risky. If you over do it, it can back fire through the Carb and start a fire. I have had this happen and seen it happen to others. If you do insist on pumping the throttle make sure you keep it turning until it starts, then if there is any backfire induced fire, it will suck it into the engine. Better to use a 6 point primer, WAIT 30 OR SO SECONDS for that fuel to atomize and it will start first or second compression, but waiting is the key. How many primes will depend on ambient temp. For us, after the first start and in a moderate climate it does not need any priming for the rest of the day.

X2! This has been my experience with my Pponk as well.

As to the throttle usage during startup...The Pponk start technique I described is again over 14 years/1000 hours, with roughly that many years and hours on the previous engine(O-470R).

This is getting to be quite a large sample, with absolutely zero problems.

I understand the concern, just sharing what works on my airplane.

I had a nice conversation with Steve Knopp today and will relay two points he made:

1. He strongly recommends the following start procedure-- A) throttle full out, B) 3 primes then C) instantly start cranking the engine. If it doesn't fire right away he says to add a squeeze of throttle but not until the prop is turning. He says don't start with ANY throttle and don't delay after adding prime.

2. Nobody else has asked about it, but my local mechanic (a highly accomplished guy with a sweet Pponked 180) recommended against doing circuits with my PPonk because he is concerned about the cycling of cylinder head temps (specifically, shock cooling) from full throttle takeoff to idle on short final in a fairly compressed time frame. To be clear, his concern is not a function of the break in period, he just thinks repetitive circuits shorten the life of the engine. I asked Steve's opinion and he does not see a problem with it. He says the nickel cylinders are very, very robust. His advice was to climb with full power, pull the prop back before the throttle, then start backing MP off in stages during downwind. He advised getting the prop to full fine around the turn to final.

I've only flown the 24 squared break in hours so far so I can't comment on my own experience, but that is what the engine's chief tweaker recommends.

Mine is running hot.
57 hrs since new , nickel cylinders.
Take off 2700 RPMs full throttle
at 1000ft reduce rpm to 2500 and continue full throttle, if climbimng above 4000ft start leaning a bit.

On climbs CHTs sometimes get into the 390s
At cruise I get cyl #2 EGT 100 to 150 higher than the rest 1500s(already checked for induction leaks)
CHTs below 380, if I add carb heat EGTs get even and to have all of them below 1500f I have to run 16 GPH or so at 23 square.
Oil between 210f and 215f JPI probe between cyl 2 and 4
Aerospace Logic probe STC replaced the Cessna probe and that one shows about 160f.

My O470 R used to run a lot cooler and made it to TBO without a single issue.(Also had a high EGT on cyl #2 (so the probe might be failing?)

Just wondering if running those temps will decrease the engine's life.

motoadve wrote:Mine is running hot.
57 hrs since new , nickel cylinders.
Take off 2700 RPMs full throttle
at 1000ft reduce rpm to 2500 and continue full throttle, if climbimng above 4000ft start leaning a bit.

On climbs CHTs sometimes get into the 390s
At cruise I get cyl #2 EGT 100 to 150 higher than the rest 1500s(already checked for induction leaks)
CHTs below 380, if I add carb heat EGTs get even and to have all of them below 1500f I have to run 16 GPH or so at 23 square.
Oil between 210f and 215f JPI probe between cyl 2 and 4
Aerospace Logic probe STC replaced the Cessna probe and that one shows about 160f.

My O470 R used to run a lot cooler and made it to TBO without a single issue.(Also had a high EGT on cyl #2 (so the probe might be failing?)

Just wondering if running those temps will decrease the engine's life.

Wow, that is hot. Yes, those temps will decrease the life of the engine. Some more investigation is in order. Could be actual heat or probes.

Kurt

motoadve wrote:Mine is running hot.
57 hrs since new , nickel cylinders.
Take off 2700 RPMs full throttle
at 1000ft reduce rpm to 2500 and continue full throttle, if climbimng above 4000ft start leaning a bit.

On climbs CHTs sometimes get into the 390s
At cruise I get cyl #2 EGT 100 to 150 higher than the rest 1500s(already checked for induction leaks)
CHTs below 380, if I add carb heat EGTs get even and to have all of them below 1500f I have to run 16 GPH or so at 23 square.
Oil between 210f and 215f JPI probe between cyl 2 and 4
Aerospace Logic probe STC replaced the Cessna probe and that one shows about 160f.

My O470 R used to run a lot cooler and made it to TBO without a single issue.(Also had a high EGT on cyl #2 (so the probe might be failing?)

Just wondering if running those temps will decrease the engine's life.

Jose, I have about 125 hrs on a new 0-470-50 (0-470R) with steel cylinders, with JPI EDM 830 monitor. The engine is in a C180J without the fixed cowl louvers. Yes, the engine did run a bit cooler before the P-Ponk upgrade.

On climb out from 3,500 ft, my fuel flow is about 23 gph and the CHTs never exceed 350F. I lean during a climb to keep the hottest EGT approximately constant until leveling off for cruise.

At 5,000' the cruise power setting you reference, 23"/2300 RPM, is about 70% power. Using a fuel flow of 16.5 gph, which is about -50 ROP, I indicate EGT of 1500F on cly #4 and CHT of 360F on cyl #3. Using a fuel flow of 18.0 gph, which is about -100 ROP, I indicate EGT of 1460F on cly #4 and CHT of 350F on cyl #3.

In both cases, the oil temp is 170F, but measured at the exit from the cooler.

I suggest not getting too concerned about the absolute values, or spread between, of the EGT readings. The location of the EGT probes has a big influence on the absolute readings. The poor design of the induction system results in uneven fuel distribution to the various cylinders, which can vary greatly at different power settings.

I believe that the focus should be on the EGT value relative to the first cylinder to peak (mine is normally #2) and keeping the CHTs at a reasonable values (below 380F).

What I am doing is using carb heat during cruise, this lowers EGTs and makes them very even, and allows me to lean a bit more.

I’ve found climb/cruise cylinder temps very sensitive to cowl flap rigging; my right cowl flap was about 3/8” shy of the left. After rigging, much more symmetric. temps

motoadve wrote:Mine is running hot.
57 hrs since new , nickel cylinders.
Take off 2700 RPMs full throttle
at 1000ft reduce rpm to 2500 and continue full throttle, if climbimng above 4000ft start leaning a bit.

On climbs CHTs sometimes get into the 390s
At cruise I get cyl #2 EGT 100 to 150 higher than the rest 1500s(already checked for induction leaks)
CHTs below 380, if I add carb heat EGTs get even and to have all of them below 1500f I have to run 16 GPH or so at 23 square.
Oil between 210f and 215f JPI probe between cyl 2 and 4
Aerospace Logic probe STC replaced the Cessna probe and that one shows about 160f.

My O470 R used to run a lot cooler and made it to TBO without a single issue.(Also had a high EGT on cyl #2 (so the probe might be failing?)

Just wondering if running those temps will decrease the engine's life.

Make sure the baffles are making a good seal. You are generating more heat with a Pponk & need to keep positive pressure under the top cowl. Replacing the silicon with 3" wide material solved the same issue for me.

I've started taking the Advanced Pilot on-line course and have found the first part (on the benefits of LOP) very informative and interesting.

I'm curious, do any PPonk drivers run LOP?

albravo wrote:I've started taking the Advanced Pilot on-line course and have found the first part (on the benefits of LOP) very informative and interesting.

I'm curious, do any PPonk drivers run LOP?

Everything I've heard suggests that's a fantastic way to burn up cylinders in a carb'd big-bore Continental due to asymmetric flow from the intake originating from the rear. Of course below 65% power you can lean to peak EGT on a Conti, so there should not be risk once you've pulled power and/or RPM back or climbed high enough that full throttle becomes irrelevant.

Does anyone have a flight profile for 182Q P-ponk to manage the engine (power setting, RPMS) during touch and goes. We have thought best would be to go from airport to nearby airport, but would really improve training to stay in the pattern?