Backcountry Pilot • School me on the Continental IO-360

School me on the Continental IO-360

Lycoming, Continental, Hartzell, McCauley, or any broad spectrum drive system component used on multiple type.
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Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:50 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

I did look into it. $34k plus the engine I have as a core. That's not in the budget. Seen a couple references to a overhauled case costing around $3k and same for a crank. The rest of the parts should be serviceable. Everything will get sent out and checked before reinstalled. The only thing giving me pause is the case and since I'll be buying a new case I might as well go with the big bearing case and get a big bearing crank.
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Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:37 am

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

whee wrote:Took the engine to a friends shop where he has a flat bed scale. Placed the engine as pictured on it including the pallet and a few feet of chain. Total weight was 452lbs. Figure the pallet weighs 30lbs and there is at least a couple lbs of chain there so 420lbs for the FWF minus prop.

I am surprised by how heavy that is.
I guess I didn't have a good appreciation of installed weights - does that include exhaust and mags, I can't see from the photo?

I was always remembering 410 lbs for my IO-540 dry weight. But I guess the installed weight is closer to 500lbs.
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Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:36 am

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

That includes exhaust, mags, alternator, starter, governor, motor mount; literally everything minus prop and oil. I'm pretty happy with the weight.
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Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:39 am

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

whee wrote:That's exactly what is going through my head. I've had the experience of engine trouble while flying over terrain with my family aboard.


Been there, done that, didn't have anyone else aboard....rolled the plane up in the mtns. Continental VAR crank in an IO 520. The "good" crank. NTSB could find no apparent cause of failure. Crank failed at #2 rod journal.

Definitely makes you think twice about this kind of stuff, and if throwing more $$ at something really makes it safer.

Primarily, the lesson I came away with is to buy BAS Harnesses.....

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Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

whee wrote: I might as well go with the big bearing case and get a big bearing crank.



I think you will be well pleased with this decision. I look forward to seeing the finished product (engine)!

I would really like to see some Franklin 220 powered bh's, it is really a badass engine by design, just wishing somebody would get back in production with it!
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Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

I really wanted a 220 Franklin to put in my BH but mogas is a must for me. I looked pretty hard at lowering the compression ratio in the 220 so I could burn mogas but with all the unknowns associated with parts I decided it was just a bad idea.

Shoulder harnesses will be going in all seats in my plane.
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Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:55 am

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

whee wrote: I really wanted a 220 Franklin to put in my BH but mogas is a must for me......


It might work on mogas, if you keep it to 92 octane, but the IO-360 Continental isn't mogas approved.
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Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:23 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

Whee, in your research did you look at the io-360 DB? I was wondering what if anything may make it better/worse than a straight io-360-D model?
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Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:01 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

whee wrote:The case has to be bored to fit the the big bearing crank. Aircraft specialties can take care of the machine work. New rods are required too.

Reman cranks have proven impossible to find. A new crank from TCM is $6600.


A new certified io-360 crank 6600 dollars from TCM? That figure seems a little low..
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Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:17 am

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

pilot wrote:Whee, in your research did you look at the io-360 DB? I was wondering what if anything may make it better/worse than a straight io-360-D model?


The "B" designates it has larger diameter journal bearings on the crankshaft and that is pretty much it. I can't remember why Continental did that. The big journal cranks are easier to find but more desirable so more expensive. A small bearing case can be bored to fit a large bearing crank but a small bearing crank cannot be used in a big bearing case. All of my knowledge is academic so I'm probably not the best person to ask. That being said, it doesn't make any difference to me whether I end up with a big bearing crank or not.
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Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:59 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

Whee, I don't think the IO360 Continental can use autogas. Not at 210hp as we have it on the Maule anyway. The Franklin O350 at 220hp can't run autogas either but will out perform the IO360 and is lighter weight.
Maybe it can at 195hp as on the C172 ?
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Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:55 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

maules.com wrote:Whee, I don't think the IO360 Continental can use autogas. Not at 210hp as we have it on the Maule anyway. The Franklin O350 at 220hp can't run autogas either but will out perform the IO360 and is lighter weight.
Maybe it can at 195hp as on the C172 ?

I didn't think any FI engines could??
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Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:45 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

Just took a quick look at an old Petersen Aviation brochure, the only injected engines listed for their mogas STC are the IO-470-J & K.
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Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:01 am

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

For you old timers with short memories[emoji6]

whee wrote:Made some calls yesterday and talked to Petersen Aviation.Great guy that spent some time talking about engines and mogas with me. He said they had all kinds of vapor lock issues on Lyc fuel injected (bendix) engines running mogas but the TCM fuel injected engines didn't have any vapor lock issues at all. The FAA wanted a boost pump on the TCM engine just to be safe so they installed a electric pump that provides ~4psi of extra pressure at the fuel tank. This was on the IO-520 and IO-470 engines.

They guy I spoke with at Fly Inpulse said they have seen some ticking of the fuel pressure gauge on their Cessna 180 (can't remember if it is a IO-550 or 520) when they turn the boost pump off at high altitudes on a hot day. He said that indicates vapor in the lines and it goes away right after they turn the boost pump back on.

I looked at the schematics of the FI systems for the IO-360 and the IO-470 in the overhaul manuals. They look very similar if not the same; even the description is the same. The IO-470 that is approved on the Fly Inpulse STC is the 8.6:1 compression version.

So with all this info it seems to me that a home builder should be able to successfully run a TCM IO-360 on mogas if they wanted to. I'm not sure that the water/methanol injection system would even be required.
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Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:44 am

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

whee wrote:For you old timers with short memories[emoji6]
whee wrote:......So with all this info it seems to me that a home builder should be able to successfully run a TCM IO-360 on mogas if they wanted to. I'm not sure that the water/methanol injection system would even be required.


Just checked Petersen' website, they show the Continental IO-470, IO-470J, IO-470K, and IO-520 on their mogas-approved list. My take is that if the IO-360 is compatible with mogas, they'd add it to their STC. Since they haven't......
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Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:25 am

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

They didn't because they would have to test it specifically in the airframe they wanted it approved in. There isn't enough airplanes using this engine to make it worth while. That is what Peterson told me.
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:50 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

It would only take half as many skymasters to make it worthwhile. :D
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Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:07 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

whee wrote:Took the engine to a friends shop where he has a flat bed scale. Placed the engine as pictured on it including the pallet and a few feet of chain. Total weight was 452lbs. Figure the pallet weighs 30lbs and there is at least a couple lbs of chain there so 420lbs for the FWF minus prop.

ImageUntitled by Jon Whee, on Flickr


Update: Wish I had a good scale but I don't (asked for one for Christmas but Santa said I'm too fat and will be getting a treadmill :? ) so I used a bathroom scale after I verified it was accurate.

Exhaust which will be reused: 17.8lbs
ImageUntitled by Jon Whee, on Flickr

Starter which will be replaced: 16.2lbs
ImageUntitled by Jon Whee, on Flickr

Alternator which will get replaced: 11.0lbs
ImageUntitled by Jon Whee, on Flickr

Pallet and chain: 43.4lbs
ImageUntitled by Jon Whee, on Flickr

I failed to weigh the vacuum pump but looking at ACS I'd guess ~4lbs and it won't be going back on.

So I'm looking at 405lbs for FWF minus prop. This is for a IO360D light case. I bought a IO360KB heavy case so I'm interest to see what it weighs once I put it together.
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Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:58 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

The oil cooler and filter are on the engine somewhere?
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Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:47 pm

Re: School me on the Continental IO-360

Battson wrote:The oil cooler and filter are on the engine somewhere?


Oil cooler is mounted on the rear of the engine. No factory filter but I will be adding one.
ImageUntitled by Jon Whee, on Flickr
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