mtv wrote:
And as a minor correction of the above, the Glock 27 is NOT a single stack pistol. It’s a little fatty.

MTV

Like I said, not a glock guy, but I thought the 27 was a single stack. Am I thinking for the glock 43?

Agreed that the H&K USP compact is a very nice weapon. I personally like the single/double trigger position and the decock. And they are VERY VERY reliable.

One of the only Glocks I have ever shot, the .45ACP 30S, pinched the skin of my palm below my thumb between the grip and the flanged base of the magazine once the last round fired and slide held the breach open. I can't figure out why the heck it would have done that, but it bit me and so I'm anti-Glock now.

I've got a .40 SIG. Never was a fan of Glocks, unfortunately; they just don't fit my hand right and I can't deal with the muzzle flip. My Glock buddy has similar complaints about my SIG. Go figure.

That said -- and I'm sure this advice has been offered up many times here already -- the best gun is the one you can shoot. Most of the current research these days shows that a .40 is really marginally better than 9mm, and 9mm costs a lot less. So I'm currently looking to trade up the .40 for something I can shoot more at the same price.

That's for a general-purpose handgun. Plinking and home defense. If you're in the backwoods and worried about the efficacy of 9mm against, say, a bear... then my choice is probably hands down a Cz75 in .45

I'm a diehard firearm guy.

I have an opinion AND experience on many different calibers and makes/models.

So to not answer your question: get a pistol that fits your hand well. Then determine what caliber is offered for the frame.

Since you specified not going tactical, or defense I suggest a larger frame 10mm or .45acp. There are plenty of holsters you can carry and fly with.

Find a friend who knows how to teach and shoot. Most are one, but not other.

Good luck, and happy hunting.

.44. I've gone through the Anaconda, Mountain Gun, tried the PD - too light, hurt with useful loads, now favour a Taurus Tracker for the size and weight. In Canada I borrow a TC Contender carbine in 30/30 with a 14" barrel. Hiking I don't want to pack the weight and just carry bear spray. If I really think I'm gonna have to shoot my way back to the plane I have an old Browning Auto5 with a 20" barrel and slugs.

akschu wrote:

mtv wrote:
And as a minor correction of the above, the Glock 27 is NOT a single stack pistol. It’s a little fatty.

MTV

Like I said, not a glock guy, but I thought the 27 was a single stack. Am I thinking for the glock 43?

Agreed that the H&K USP compact is a very nice weapon. I personally like the single/double trigger position and the decock. And they are VERY VERY reliable.

Yeah, the 43 is a single stack, available only in 9. 27 is shortened version of the 23, only .40

My H&K is DA only, no decocker. I got ruined by the Glocks for that.

MTV

Caliber debates are endlessly entertaining, but in fact anything between .22 rimfire and .44 mag is perfectly acceptable for woods cary depending on your location and needs. .22 rimfire works best for folks who want to harvest food, and the .44 is a good choice for folks who don't want to become food. Of all the handgun/caliber combinations I think the Glock 20 in 10mm is the ultimate balance of firepower and shootability, but that's just my preference and I don't disparage people who choose differently.

Bullet selection is often more important than caliber selection. It's the bullet that does the work, after all. A .38 special loaded with 125 grain hollow-points won't go through a marmot from the wrong angle, while the same .38 special loaded with 158 grain hard-cast Keith bullets will out-penetrate a .45 ACP 180 grain hollow-point...an important consideration if furry things need to be shot.

Physical stature also plays an important roll. My wife is one of the toughest people I've ever met, and she has a level of athletic strength that has to be seen to be believed. But she's very small and has had multiple hand injuries. She can shoot a 9mm much better than a .40, (which is pretty common even for large people without hand injuries). Going bigger than 9mm, regardless of the reason for carrying a handgun, would be counterproductive for her.

As others have pointed out, the caliber is of little consequence if you can't hit the target. Lots of folks fancy themselves gunslingers because they have a dozen or so handguns, or because they cary a pistol some of the time, or because they read gun magazines cover to cover, but being able to really shoot a pistol is a fantastically different thing.

Anyone who considers themselves a pretty decent pistol shot should go shoot a Steel Challenge and report back. It's amazing how people crumble under the pressure of a timer and an audience...pretty low (negligible) stress compared to any situation where a handgun is actually necessary to save yourself, or even feed yourself.

It takes thousands and thousands of rounds to be proficient with a pistol, so cost of shooting should definitely play into caliber considerations. If being charged by a furious grizzly or enraged bull moose, I'd much rather be standing beside a fellow armed with a 9mm that he runs 5,000 rounds a year through, rather than someone with a hand-cannon they'd only shot a couple hundred times. A crack shot with a hand cannon would be best, but such a person is beyond rare.

Paring caliber with a specific handgun is another factor all together. Aside from the bargain brands (Taurus, Kahr, Kel Tec, etc.) all the major brands of handguns are pretty much as good as the next. Glock, Sig, Springfield, Ruger, S&W, H&K, Colt, Kimber, etc...pick what you like. Much more important than the make, and even more important than the ergonomics, is the SIZE and WEIGHT. Too small and you can't shoot it accurately; too big and you won't cary it.

I love my Glock 20 in 10mm, but you really have to want to cary a gun to pack it around. It's not an insubstantial amount of weight, though it's half the weight of the average .44 wheelgun. The Glock 29 10mm weighs a little less, but you give up so much in ergonomics and accuracy that it's a poor compromise. It's too bad Glock doesn't make something in between.

The 11 ounce S&W .357 mag is the only gun that goes everywhere with me, and that's because it's 11 ounces. It's the definition of "any gun beats no gun", and I cary it simply for that reason. I sure wish they made a six-shot version with a 4" barrel, coming in at around 16 oz. That would be a great woods gun.

Another super woods caliber is the .22 WRM...more energy at 100 yards than the .22 LR makes at the muzzle and negligible recoil, plus the ammo doesn't weigh much. Unfortunately the handguns made in that round are either close range "defensive" weapons, or heavy-for-caliber revolvers. Not much point in carrying a .22 WRM if a .357 weighs about the same. .22 WRM is another round that would be great in a 4" revolver made from scandium and titanium, but as of yet I think they only make it in a 2" barrel. I guess people who walk the woods are a small portion of the handgun buying market.

mtv wrote:
Yeah, the 43 is a single stack, available only in 9. 27 is shortened version of the 23, only .40

My H&K is DA only, no decocker. I got ruined by the Glocks for that.

MTV

The original USP compact had a smooth hammer, DA/SA with a decock. Looking at this, it seems that you can configure the weapon with a number of variants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_USP) so did you get a USP compact and convert to variant 7? Or do you have some other compact like the tactical?

Learn something new every day.... and a bit of the time it's from you, thanks for posting.

I picked up a FN-57 a little bit back. It might be my new favorite pistol of the bunch. Light weight, super accurate, and with not much more kick than a .22, follow up shots are right on target. It might not be a one shoot bear stopper, but I bet I have a better chance of getting lead in the bear than the guy with the .357. For a small round it's amazing how powerful it is, super fast round.
definitely not cheap to shoot.

Suppose I want to buy a 45acp (I have my reasons), I don't care for Glocks (more reasons), and it must be a single stack no more than 1" wide. What do you think the best option would be?

From my research I get:

Some 1911 variant.
Kahr P45
Springfield Xd-s
Colt Defender

akschu wrote:

mtv wrote:
Yeah, the 43 is a single stack, available only in 9. 27 is shortened version of the 23, only .40

My H&K is DA only, no decocker. I got ruined by the Glocks for that.

MTV

The original USP compact had a smooth hammer, DA/SA with a decock. Looking at this, it seems that you can configure the weapon with a number of variants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_USP) so did you get a USP compact and convert to variant 7? Or do you have some other compact like the tactical?

Learn something new every day.... and a bit of the time it's from you, thanks for posting.

Tactical. Didn't know any different when I bought it, just shot one owned by a friend, and really liked it.

MTV

akschu wrote:Suppose I want to buy a 45acp (I have my reasons), I don't care for Glocks (more reasons), and it must be a single stack no more than 1" wide. What do you think the best option would be?

From my research I get:

Some 1911 variant.
Kahr P45
Springfield Xd-s
Colt Defender

Have several .45acp's and they all have their use. I have always preferred a full size 1911. My best shooter is the Dan Wesson Valor, very nice handgun and even though it is not a cheap gun, I carry it 99% of the time around the property. Actually have it on at the moment as I just came in from grouse hunting and roaming the property. A very accurate handgun. Everyone should own at least one 1911!!

Other .45's I carry on regular basis are the H&K HK45CT that is also quite accurate and similar in size to a G19. I used it today to requalify for my CC. For when I feel the need of deep concealing, I have a Kahr PM45 which may be one of the smallest higher quality .45's available. Not much bigger than a lot of 9mm's, very concealable and not overly heavy. I used a Colt Officers Model for well over 20 years before getting the PM45. The OM is similar to the Colt Defender, good gun but mine is a steel frame and heavier by quite a bit compared to the PM45.

One of the few guns I don't own is the Springfield XD series. I have read and heard good things about them, just don't have need for another .45.

Hope this helps a bit.

I had terrible luck with Kahr. Loved the gun (9mm)...shot great, carried great, but it was about as reliable as a meth addict. I never got through a full magazine without a malfunction; always a failure of the slide to come into battery.

Changed springs, changed barrels, polished every moving part to a mirror shine...nothing worked. I sent it to Kahr four times before demanding a replacement. They replaced it, but didn't reimburse the $200 in shipping fees I'd incurred to try to make the pistol work as it should. I sold the replacement unfired...I'd had more than enough of that brand.

This was fifteen years ago, and from talking to people my story was not at all unique. Common, even. Maybe they've stepped up their act, but I'd be SUPER cautious of that brand. As always...YMMV.

Was it the nicer kahr like a P or a K or was it the lower end CW?

I know people that have both and the CW had issues that were rectified by Kahr and the P was flawless.

It was the P.

When it fired it was great...very accurate. But that was only about 1/3rd the time... I couldn't get away from it fast enough.

Hammer,
I have heard the same complaints also, many time actually. I understand you are an avid shooter (competitor) also and highly doubt this may be your experience with the Kahr guns. Probably another reason the Kahrs work for me since their trigger pull is more like a DA revolver than the newer striker fired guns like Glock. I hated Glocks at first but have learned to shoot them as well as any other gun I own.

I have bought 4-PM's from guys that couldn't get them to run good. 3-PM9's and 1-PM45. I hate to say this, but after a few thousand rounds through each of them, I have not had a single hick-up. Seriously!! I am thinking that they are just extremely particular to the way one holds them. My buddy, who is also an avid shooter can't get any of them to cycle a magazine without a failure. Calls them a POS, yet, I can get it directly from his hands and run mag after mag through any one of them without an issue. Granted, I am sure many have gone out the door with issues, just relaying my experience.

All of mine are definitely accurate, especially considering their small size. The only one that isn't a PM series is a CW380 and it has decent accuracy. My only complaint with it is that it is almost too small for me. Seems tiny in the hand and trigger reach is short.

Regards,
Keith

"Limp-wristing" perhaps?

hotrod180 wrote:"Limp-wristing" perhaps?

While incorrect grip can cause functioning errors, at the time I was dealing with the Kahr I had shot north of 100,000 rounds through handguns, and was the number-one ranked shooter in a moderate sized CA sheriff's department six years running. I'm guessing that limp wristing wasn't causing the issues I experienced, but I could be wrong...

hotrod180 wrote:

mtv wrote:…..Of course, to be practical, that Glock 10 will shoot .40 all day too.....

First time I've ever heard of this.
I was surprised, as they're both rimless cases they (should) headspace on the case mouth.
I did a little research, I guess this isn't all that uncommon a practice.
When shooting 40 in a 10mm barrel, the case is held in place for the firing pin strike by the extractor.
Not an ideal situation, but I guess it works. Usually.
Ditto for the shorter 40 round in the longer 10mm magazine.

The reason it's considered safe in the the Glock ( AND ONLY THE GLOCK) is that the firing pin has a stop limiting its travel. If the the case were to slip off the extractor, or should the extractor fail and the round slid down the barrel, the firing pin would never contact the primer, preventing an incorrect headspace situation. Definitely not the case in some other firearms, like 1911's, and shouldn't be attempted as such.

Iron74 wrote:I picked up a FN-57 a little bit back. It might be my new favorite pistol of the bunch. Light weight, super accurate, and with not much more kick than a .22, follow up shots are right on target. It might not be a one shoot bear stopper, but I bet I have a better chance of getting lead in the bear than the guy with the .357. For a small round it's amazing how powerful it is, super fast round.
definitely not cheap to shoot.

I personally would be very hesitant about using rounds known primarily for their penetration characteristics for general purpose. I don't know much about how the round expands but I do know it goes right through things, which is in most cases not all that desirable!

(also, it doesn't fit in my hands right, but that's a whole different thing)