Troy is back!!!! it must be fall.

The thing is that confined space and fast water ops are not needed, nor really taught in basic SES (they should be, but aren't), nor is beaching, docking, or using a ramp to any real extent. Most folks that get their SES are getting it as a unique thing, or to replace a BFR, and won't ever fly a float plane again. If they do, generally an insurance company will dictate more hours with an instructor in type, or a 135 will train them up.

And....no matter how well you were trained, you will eventually scare yourself, I guarantee it.

Headoutdaplane wrote:Troy is back!!!! it must be fall.

The thing is that confined space and fast water ops are not needed, nor really taught in basic SES (they should be, but aren't), nor is beaching, docking, or using a ramp to any real extent. Most folks that get their SES are getting it as a unique thing, or to replace a BFR, and won't ever fly a float plane again. If they do, generally an insurance company will dictate more hours with an instructor in type, or a 135 will train them up.

And....no matter how well you were trained, you will eventually scare yourself, I guarantee it.

Unfortunately, you're mostly correct. Which is just one reason that float insurance is obscenely expensive....there are others.

Frankly, it is my opinion that "vanity seaplane ratings" should never be permitted. Would an examiner ever sign off a MEL candidate without a single engine demo? Hell no, and neither should someone get a "gimme" just because "well, they'll never actually fly a seaplane again anyway". This is just one of the ways the flight training community shoots itself in the foot.

I know a gent who does SES training in an amphib.....in an area where there is literally only two lakes you can land in, and no moving water. He does it not to train people to fly floats, but so he can write off his airplane on taxes.

Flight training SHOULD be about training the candidate, not ego or tax write offs.

That said, much of the learning on floats comes after one passes the checkride, but a good instructor SHOULD give every applicant enough of a taste that there are few actual surprises.

Opinion, in case you hadn't guessed.

MTV

mtv wrote:

Headoutdaplane wrote:Troy is back!!!! it must be fall.

The thing is that confined space and fast water ops are not needed, nor really taught in basic SES (they should be, but aren't), nor is beaching, docking, or using a ramp to any real extent. Most folks that get their SES are getting it as a unique thing, or to replace a BFR, and won't ever fly a float plane again. If they do, generally an insurance company will dictate more hours with an instructor in type, or a 135 will train them up.

And....no matter how well you were trained, you will eventually scare yourself, I guarantee it.

Unfortunately, you're mostly correct. Which is just one reason that float insurance is obscenely expensive....there are others.

Frankly, it is my opinion that "vanity seaplane ratings" should never be permitted. Would an examiner ever sign off a MEL candidate without a single engine demo? Hell no, and neither should someone get a "gimme" just because "well, they'll never actually fly a seaplane again anyway". This is just one of the ways the flight training community shoots itself in the foot.

I know a gent who does SES training in an amphib.....in an area where there is literally only two lakes you can land in, and no moving water. He does it not to train people to fly floats, but so he can write off his airplane on taxes.

Flight training SHOULD be about training the candidate, not ego or tax write offs.

That said, much of the learning on floats comes after one passes the checkride, but a good instructor SHOULD give every applicant enough of a taste that there are few actual surprises.

Opinion, in case you hadn't guessed.

MTV

When I took my SES checkride, I admitted to the DPE that for me, it was a bucket list item, and that I didn't expect to use it. I liked what he said, that his experience with pilots trained by Seattle Seaplanes was that their training was more thorough than most, and that in any event, he expected me to perform as if I was about to move to Alaska and take a float plane job.

FWIW, I did enough beaching in training to be pretty competent at it. The confined space training was pretty limited, though, and there was no fast water training. I had actually learned to ramp during an intro lesson in BC the year before.

I have no doubt that becoming really competent as a seaplane pilot is much the same as becoming competent as a pilot, period. The ticket is the license to learn, and the real learning comes after the ticket is in hand. It is not possible to teach all of the possible scenarios that we can find ourselves encountering, whether it's on land or on water.

Cary

Headoutdaplane wrote:Troy is back!!!! it must be fall.

The thing is that confined space and fast water ops are not needed, nor really taught in basic SES (they should be, but aren't), nor is beaching, docking, or using a ramp to any real extent. Most folks that get their SES are getting it as a unique thing, or to replace a BFR, and won't ever fly a float plane again. If they do, generally an insurance company will dictate more hours with an instructor in type, or a 135 will train them up.

And....no matter how well you were trained, you will eventually scare yourself, I guarantee it.

I even took my boy down the peninsula for a moose hunt. No moose, but we did have a good camping trip in the wettest messiest weather you could hope for. So yes...must be fall!


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