It has been raining a lot in my area and my runway is very soft, too soft to fly my 180 that has 600 x 6 main tires. A pair of 850s came with the plane , I haven't had time to put them on, let alone do any flying. Before I put the 850s on, I was wondering if they will really help that much or will I need to go to a bigger tire. I use my plane for cross country trips and local hopping to other grass strips, there is no backcountry type flying in my area and I don't have any plans to do any off field landings unless the engine quits. I also don't want to tear up my runway too much. Will the 850s help or will I need to go bigger. Just to let you know how wet it is, when you drive a golf cart on the runway it leaves small rutts in the surface, some spots have standing water on them.

That sounds pretty soft. I doubt the 8.50s will help that much.

MTV

I forgot to mention that I just want to get the plane over to my strip, one landing, so I don't have to pay another months hanger rent at the other airport. I wanted to wait until the runway froze, but that isn't going to happen in the next 3 days. I basically wanted to know if I should waste my time to switch to the bigger tires just for this one landing. Once I get it over to my strip I can change the tires in a heated hangar where all my tools are at when I have the time. I am planning to use the 850s in the future but time is a huge factor right now.

I have had poor results and bent things when in a rush.

unless you want to do some of Kevins custom mods, I would pay another months rent. Wet and squishy isn't a great combo on little tires.

How deep is the softness on your strip? Deep enough to risk putting the 180 on its back if the 6.00's dig in and slow the plane too quickly? Cheaper to pay another months hangar rent.

How much soft field landing experience do you have? If none or very little it's cheaper to pay another months rent.

If, after this, you still feel like testing your strip, make sure you've got some weight in the back of the 180, and drag the strip the first landing attempt. Meaning gently set the mains on the strip and drag the length of the strip while maintaining near takeoff speed. Be sure one hand is on the throttle and you are ready to go around instantly if it feels draggy when the wheels touch. How does the strip feel? Any spots on it worse then others? If it seems okay make one more pass, dragging again but slower with more weight on the mains, ready to go around instantly. If it still feels okay then come around and land the plane tail low wheel landing or three-point. If you are worried about tearing up your strip making these test passes then pay another months rent. If you've never dragged a strip before, pay another months rent.

If any this is foreign to you pay another months rent. This sounds a lot like "get home itis" and we all know how that usually ends up. Fly safe.

BTW, if it was me, and I fly off nothing but turf, dirt, gravel, and mud in my 185 - and if I had 6.00's - I'd leave the plane be. Probably leave it be if it had 8.50's and the soft had any depth to it at all as well.

Barnstormer wrote:How deep is the softness on your strip? Deep enough to risk putting the 180 on its back if the 6.00's dig in and slow the plane too quickly? Cheaper to pay another months hangar rent.

How much soft field landing experience do you have? If none or very little it's cheaper to pay another months rent.

If, after this, you still feel like testing your strip, make sure you've got some weight in the back of the 180, and drag the strip the first landing attempt. Meaning gently set the mains on the strip and drag the length of the strip while maintaining near takeoff speed. Be sure one hand is on the throttle and you are ready to go around instantly if it feels draggy when the wheels touch. How does the strip feel? Any spots on it worse then others? If it seems okay make one more pass, dragging again but slower with more weight on the mains, ready to go around instantly. If it still feels okay then come around and land the plane tail low wheel landing or three-point. If you are worried about tearing up your strip making these test passes then pay another months rent. If you've never dragged a strip before, pay another months rent.

If any this is foreign to you pay another months rent. This sounds a lot like "get home itis" and we all know how that usually ends up. Fly safe.

BTW, if it was me, and I fly off nothing but turf, dirt, gravel, and mud in my 185 - and if I had 6.00's - I'd leave the plane be. Probably leave it be if it had 8.50's and the soft had any depth to it at all as well.

^^^ this. Also, bigger tires are very expensive. Cheaper to pay another months rent, especially if you don't plane on doing any of field landings.

I have 2000+ hours and 250 in a 180, but very little time on soft field. I would like to think I could pull it off, but I don't want to learn any hard lessons right now. I guess it will eventually freeze here in South central pa. I am getting anxious to have my plane at my private strip. I waited 52 years, I guess I can wait another month or 2.

Barnstormer did a great job with that reply...

Barnstormers response is good.

An additional consideration is what you'll do to your strip, even if you don't wreck the plane.

You will for sure rut the hell out of the strip, and it can be a PITA to repair that kind of damage.

All for a month's rent?

MTV

How 'bout the road----just kidding.

Thats the place. The road has powerlines on both sides. I need to learn how to post pictures. Thanks for posting it.

cliff wrote:...I am getting anxious to have my plane at my private strip. I waited 52 years, I guess I can wait another month or 2.

Thanks Cliff. Sometime I'll be in PA and want to come visit you with a happy 180.

Something to consider in the future for marginal times is going with 26" Goodyear Blimp tires. They are smooth, a little bigger then the 8.50's but I doubt you'll see any speed difference between the Goodyear 26's and the 8.50's, I didn't. And to quote MTV "they wear like iron" so you can land paved strips to your hearts content.
http://www.desser.com/store/products/26%7B47%7D10.5%252d6-6-PLY-GOODYEAR-AIRCRAFT-TIRE-%26-TUBE-COMBO.html

Post some pics when you get the 180 home, we'd all love to see 'em.

I am a little tapped out financially right now, so the free 850s look like the optimum choice. I just checked the local weather and it looks like Wed has a high of 30 and a low of 20 New Years Eve. If I can drag my butt out of bed early enough the runway should be frozen until mid morning. No forcasted percipitation until Sunday. I am gonna just pray for some cold weather. My 180 is a 1953 and has a horton stol kit on it. It is light and performs better than my skills are able to test. I have had many 300' or shorter landing in it but not in soft conditions. If it freezes this week I plan to bring it home.

This is what down to 18 degrees overnight did for me on bare dirt that got a half inch or more of rain the day before----no problems. The day before when it was in the 30's would have been a disaster.

180Marty wrote:This is what down to 18 degrees overnight did for me on bare dirt that got a half inch or more of rain the day before----no problems. The day before when it was in the 30's would have been a disaster.

Is that a grain vac on a one ton? That is sweet! Does the truck have a pto or how is the vac operated? Never seen one like that, but I really like it!

Sorry for the thread drift.

Does the truck have a pto or how is the vac operated?

I think it was a little Cummins powering the vac so is self contained. The outfit has several vac trucks that must be contracted to Monsanto. Pretty noisy so I kept my distance.

Very interesting. No such thing as a quiet vac is there? I just like the idea of a self contained unit rather then running a tractor around.

Drifting back, I've had one really scary experience landing on too soft a strip--the dirt strip that Lee Schloredt had at Sundance, WY, before he paved it. 2100' long at 5000' elevation, and we landed in the early afternoon after the snow had melted enough and drained across the strip to create a 30' soft spot at about 600' from the approach end--like really soft--but not very noticeable from the air, at least at the pattern altitude of 800' AGL. I touched the Skylane down like usual, within about 100' of the approach end and was down to an airspeed something just below registering on the AI when we hit it--and the airplane just stopped--whoomp! Fortunately everyone's seatbelt was tight, and the nose was still in the air, so when it dropped, it didn't drop far enough for the prop to hit--the nose wheel was not quite half buried in the mud, but the mains were more than half buried.

We lifted the nose gear by pushing down the tail and put a 2x6 under it. Then we jacked each main up separately with a VW jack under the step junction and put WWII landing mats under them. Then I fired it up, and had enough speed when it ran off the 2x6 and landing mats to continue onto the hard ground beyond the mud. Only damage was to my ego--if I'd known about it, I could have landed beyond it and still easily stopped.

Later that day, my step-dad and I went out to repair the strip, which took an hour or so of shoveling, because it was still pretty soft. I figured if we'd get off early enough in the day, it would have hardened with overnight freezing. It had, but not as solid as I'd hoped for when I walked the strip, so it was a soft field take off with 20 flaps. In another hour, we'd have had to wait another day, because I couldn't quite get it off before hitting that soft spot. As it was, I could feel the extra drag as we went across it--had the whole strip been that soft, I would have had to abort.

That was almost 40 years ago. Faced with the exact situation today, I would buzz the strip if I saw the snow on either side, come around and land beyond the soft spot, but I was younger, foolisher, and a whole lot less experienced. One of the things that I've learned over the years is that just because I've landed someplace many times, as I had at Sundance, that doesn't mean it will be the exact same situation every time, especially with soft fields or fields that can become soft. Another thing I've learned is to be more prepared with a Plan B, and in that case, a "pre-Plan A"--I could have asked Pop to check the strip before we left Laramie, and I'd have known what to expect--the old "license to learn" thing again.

Cary

Small world Cliff, I flew over your strip on Saturday. Was at Shoestring 0P2 and decided to go up to Bermudian Valley. I have a strip at my house about 8 miles south of Shoestring, and nothing beats having your plane at your house.
Nick