Backcountry Pilot • To Headliner or not to headliner

To Headliner or not to headliner

Have you modified your aircraft? STC? STOL Kit? Major rebuild from just a data plate?
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

asa wrote:Just to expand the options...

At work the Cessna planes have a kydex headliner. It's pretty simple, flat across the top with a bend on each side so it angles steeply down to the door/windows. It's almost vertical on the sides, and the top is snug against the cabin top. A 4ft x 8ft sheet strategically cut and bent covers a whole 207. Closed cell foam insuation behind it. This gives the same headroom as no headliner, but is very rugged and even loading sharp items, they can't damage the skins. I can try to get a pic. Also makes it where mounting lights, headset jacks, AW docs, etc is no big deal. Looks very clean as well. I'll get a pic later.

In combination with the selkirk interior, makes the plane interior pretty bombproof.


This sounds interesting, please do post a picture when you get a chance.
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

The foam overhead may work okay. I don’t care for the look, but I’m not going to be looking at it.

But the foam on the sidewalls? I wonder what that’s going to look like in a couple years? Granted, you can be really, really careful loading and unloading, but there comes a time...

I like the idea of a good wool fabric over the foam better. The fabric should help avoid snagging the foam.

I’m guessing that foam would be a bitch to remove.

MTV
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

mtv wrote:The foam overhead may work okay. I don’t care for the look, but I’m not going to be looking at it.

But the foam on the sidewalls? I wonder what that’s going to look like in a couple years? Granted, you can be really, really careful loading and unloading, but there comes a time...

I like the idea of a good wool fabric over the foam better. The fabric should help avoid snagging the foam.

I’m guessing that foam would be a bitch to remove.

MTV
I get that for sure Mike. I'll probably cover mine with wool eventually. Ripped foam or cracked plastic, not sure which looks worse. Neither do really. I'll let you know after a few years of use how it looks.
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

Not for the weight. The foam and felt probably weighs just as much as a light wool headliner.
Not for the noise. That's what headsets are for. Plus the foam deadens just as well as a headliner.
Not for the warmth, Unless your headliner is vinyl, you're not sealing anything. Cold air from leaky gaps goes right through wool headliners.
Not for the utility. It adds no utility. It's simply a method of covering what's over your head.

I did it because I think the wool headliners look antiquated and they are a royal SOB to install right.
Felt over foam looks very nice. It makes a clean install. One benefit is, it gives me a little more headroom.

I might feel differently if I got my driver's license in a Studebaker but the wool headliners make the airplane look old.
That's ok if you like the old look. There is no better or worse. It's simply two options of equal value with different aesthetics.

Image
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

Bagarre wrote:Not for the weight. The foam and felt probably weighs just as much as a light wool headliner.
Not for the noise. That's what headsets are for. Plus the foam deadens just as well as a headliner.
Not for the warmth, Unless your headliner is vinyl, you're not sealing anything. Cold air from leaky gaps goes right through wool headliners.
Not for the utility. It adds no utility. It's simply a method of covering what's over your head.

I did it because I think the wool headliners look antiquated and they are a royal SOB to install right.
Felt over foam looks very nice. It makes a clean install. One benefit is, it gives me a little more headroom.

I might feel differently if I got my driver's license in a Studebaker but the wool headliners make the airplane look old.
That's ok if you like the old look. There is no better or worse. It's simply two options of equal value with different aesthetics.

Image


Now you’ve gone too far......let’s not be putting down Studebakers, okay? :) :roll: :lol:

And, I’ve installed two wool headliners, and thought they were fairly easy. They shrink nice to remove wrinkles with hairdryer.

But, again, it’s whatever turns your crank, I reckon. Cept when it comes to Studebakers, that is :P

MTV
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

You do nice work Bagarre, wish I had your skills and abilities
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

Bagarre wrote:Not for the weight. The foam and felt probably weighs just as much as a light wool headliner.
Not for the noise. That's what headsets are for. Plus the foam deadens just as well as a headliner.
Not for the warmth, Unless your headliner is vinyl, you're not sealing anything. Cold air from leaky gaps goes right through wool headliners.
Not for the utility. It adds no utility. It's simply a method of covering what's over your head.

I did it because I think the wool headliners look antiquated and they are a royal SOB to install right.
Felt over foam looks very nice. It makes a clean install. One benefit is, it gives me a little more headroom.

I might feel differently if I got my driver's license in a Studebaker but the wool headliners make the airplane look old.
That's ok if you like the old look. There is no better or worse. It's simply two options of equal value with different aesthetics.

Image


BAM!! that is what I'm looking at for the ceiling, gives it a bit more of a roomy feel - and I like the felt/wool over the foam look and the added protection of my jackass buddies fishing pole or whatever buggering up the foam.

Do you have a picture of the area above the pilot, what did you do with your overhead dome/map light?
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

corefile wrote:
hotrod180 wrote:"Pilot Light Pro", available from Aircraft Spruce.
Instrument & pinpoint map lights only.
No dome light.
Image

That looks pretty slick! do you have ships power or just using batteries ?


Battery power, i rarely fly at night so i didnt bother wiring it into ships power.
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

dogpilot wrote:......….I think it is a tad foolish to leave the side panels out. Your aircraft skin is kind of delicate. It does not take much of an impact from something sliding around inside to put a pooch mark dent sicking out....


My C180 had a nice flat-floor extended baggage when I bought it, but the sides were uncovered.
I didn't like thinking about how easy it'd be to ding the sides, throwing in a camp chair or whatever.
I bought some foam-backed posterboard at the local arty custom frame shop
and covered it with some surplus material from when the previous owners did the other side panels.
It doesn't weigh hardly anything but looks way better,
and I don't worry as much about "door dings" (from the inside out).
I forget what I paid for the posterboard at the frame shop,
but I just saw some at a dollar store for (surprise!) a dollar a sheet.
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

Mapleflt wrote:You do nice work Bagarre, wish I had your skills and abilities

Skill and ability mostly looks like doing something for or five times till it looks good and only showing the final product. :D

corefile wrote:BAM!! that is what I'm looking at for the ceiling, gives it a bit more of a roomy feel - and I like the felt/wool over the foam look and the added protection of my jackass buddies fishing pole or whatever buggering up the foam.

Do you have a picture of the area above the pilot, what did you do with your overhead dome/map light?


This is the best photo I have of up front. I need to grab the wide angle and take a few shots.
The 170's dome light is pretty minimal and sealed up rather well for light leaking.
Map lights will be on the door pillars, not over head. I don't fly at night so map lights are pretty low priority.
Image

It's 1/4" black flame proof foam and 1/8th inch 100% wool felt laminated using 3M's super adhesive stuff.
It cuts very easily with a straight edge and brand new razors.

- Make templates for every section using strips of heavy construction paper. Tape the strips in place on the airplane to make the patterns.
- Laminate large 4'x4' sections of foam to felt and cut your pieces using pre-made patterns.
- Steam iron the felt perfectly flat and smooth. The slightest fold or wrinkle will show.
- Use two people to laminate and apply NO tension while laminating. You want to lay it down without wrinkles but dont stretch the wool even a tiny bit or it will warp the foam.
- Change the razors before you think you need to. It makes a real mess of things when they get even a little dull.
I wasted a lot of material before figuring this out.


I attached mine to the roof with sail basting tape around the edges and a few strips in the middle for the wider sections. It doesnt take much to hold it in. Makes it 100 times easier to rip it out or replace a section later on too.

Image
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

Bagarre,
Your my hero. I plan to do just that but use my own colors. I appreciate the info and you being a guinea pig for us who want to do it just like this.

gyspy
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

gypsywagon wrote:Bagarre,
Your my hero. I plan to do just that but use my own colors. I appreciate the info and you being a guinea pig for us who want to do it just like this.

gyspy


Merely sitting on the shoulders of giants.
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

mtv wrote:
But the foam on the sidewalls? I wonder what that’s going to look like in a couple years? Granted, you can be really, really careful loading and unloading, but there comes a time...

MTV


If you get a tear in the foam or damage it somehow, just replace that section. Easypeasy
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

As mentioned, it's way better to make foam panels yourself. The Selkirk kit I got was a total loss in terms of usability...rough messed up edges, didn't fit, etc. I did my own in a few hours.
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

lesuther wrote:As mentioned, it's way better to make foam panels yourself. The Selkirk kit I got was a total loss in terms of usability...rough messed up edges, didn't fit, etc. I did my own in a few hours.


I’m still debating doing mine - is there a better way to affix it without a permanent adhesive?
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

TxAgfisher wrote:
lesuther wrote:As mentioned, it's way better to make foam panels yourself. The Selkirk kit I got was a total loss in terms of usability...rough messed up edges, didn't fit, etc. I did my own in a few hours.


I’m still debating doing mine - is there a better way to affix it without a permanent adhesive?


https://www.sailrite.com/Seamstick-3-8- ... vas-60-Yds
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner



Think basting tape will work on the inside of fabric and not cause trouble? My panels are held in place with friction and the slight tackiness remaining from the Stewart’s glue. The ceiling panels could use a little better securing.
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

Bagarre wrote:….This is the best photo I have of up front. I need to grab the wide angle and take a few shots.
The 170's dome light is pretty minimal and sealed up rather well for light leaking.
Map lights will be on the door pillars, not over head. I don't fly at night so map lights are pretty low priority.
Image


Very nice work!
Good tip on the basting tape.
What do you have for instrument panel lighting?
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

I simply cleaned the metal surface with alcohol and used foam stock with PSA. The PSA is a film, and is far more easily removed when you want it off with some acetone or MEK than the 3M brown mucky mess.

Be sure to buy foam and adhesive that doesn't burst into flame. The aircraft foam kit I purchased actually sustained flames pretty well when I tested the mess (even though it was supposed to pass some sort of flame test). The stuff I purchased to make myself barely even smoked (silicone foam), although the PSA did smoke quite a bit, and since the stuff is an acrylic material, I wasn't too happy about it. The epoxies and 3M goop all emit really awful thick toxic aminated smoke when ignited with a lighter, but don't seem to sustain a flame.

Basting tape is usually acrylic as well, and over time (on sails) may come loose (it does on my sails after a few years).
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Re: To Headliner or not to headliner

whee wrote:


Think basting tape will work on the inside of fabric and not cause trouble? My panels are held in place with friction and the slight tackiness remaining from the Stewart’s glue. The ceiling panels could use a little better securing.


The tape is foam to metal. Not fabric. The fabric (felt) is glued on with 3M contact spray.
The vast majority of the panels stay in place with little to no adhesive. It's only the flat ones over head. Even in heat, it will be a long time before the tape loosens enough for them to come down. When it does, I'll put more tape.

Re-Panel lighting. It's pretty much a spot light on the door pillar but, I don't fly at night so it's not really a concern.
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