So I'm getting some work done on the 180 adding the 3rd window of the later models, my 180E has just the 2 side windows - door window and passenger - so I'm adding the 3rd window that started with the 180G. Anywho since we had to cut back the headliner and it was old and crusty, just ripped it out. I'm going to clean all the gunk up and paint the interior.. but deciding if I then go back with a headliner or if I do no headliner and do the foam or some other application. For those that have gone sans headliner - how do you handle the overhead lights?

I’m sans headliner on an E model. I just screwed the plastic piece back up without anything around it. Don’t fly to much at night, but light splashes all around, doesn’t bother me. Looks a little, okay a lot, redneck though...

Very interested in seeing the 3 window work after you’re done though!

Rod

Lose the light all together and just use door post lights. Now is the perfect time to install skylights

I would really recommend that you replace the headliner. Couple of reasons. One, you can retain more heat with the insulation. Two, it does offer a bit of sound deadening, more or less depending if you do replace the fiberglass we all hate so much. Three, as you noticed, the cheap lights that Clyde Cessna chose to put in leak light everywhere otherwise. And the fourth and final reason. The e'ffing FAA wankers that know nothing, but you just gave one of these wanks a reason to turn your crank. Open the door and eventually some kind of weasel will slip in to give you some fun. That is unless you have some very convincing paperwork to back up the omission.

I have a love hate thing with skylights. My first 185 didn't have them. It had everything else, but no skylights. Shortly after I got the 185, Dogpilot got his first namesake Birddog. Ahhhh, skylights, lots of skylights. Lots of skylights that leaked water all over the middle of the seat every time it rained no matter how many time I sealed the silly things. Then later, as Dogpilot moved upward on the evolutionary path, his hair started to thin, to the point one might be tempted to say, bald. Now, I have to wear a hat under my headset or my sensitive bald head burns. Then there is the occasional placement of the errant star that seems to like to put excess sunlight on stuff I am trying to read in the cockpit. But...there is the one time the skylight may have saved my life. My little inner voice, when not detailing my numerous failing, managed to stop berating me for a moment and told me to look up. There was some kind of Piper, I think a Lancer, decending directly on top of me over the Lakeland VOR. So aside from that, after having them in several aircraft, they do allow you to look at the underside of bridges as you fly under them but not much else. I no longer covet them.

So if you decide to replace your headliner, I used to get mine from ACME headliners, yes ACME. You would send your old one in and they would make a copy with lots of extra material. This along with a burn cert for the material. Unfortunately they will not make aircraft ones any longer. I assume they got sued after one of their headliners was involved in a major headliner related accident. I now get them from Airtex. Who on my last skylight equipped 185, made up a second special one, since the first one seemed to not have enough material to complete the job after tucking it around the skylights. They did it really fast and free.

The last reason I might put out for keeping the headliner. Bumping your head. Most C180/185's had a piece of foam rubber on the cross member running across the cockpit under the headliner. This lessened the impact on my poor, much beat up head. Now if you exposed all the other sharp bits of metal in the overhead, I would be compelled to get my head all beat up on all of them at one time or another. Aside from that, it does look a bit like a rusty '82 primer covered Chevy Camaro when you leave the interior out. To me that is. You may find it a minimalist, hipster thing of beauty. Taste varies.

dogpilot wrote: Aside from that, it does look a bit like a rusty '82 primer covered Chevy Camaro when you leave the interior out. To me that is. You may find it a minimalist, hipster thing of beauty. Taste varies.

All I needed to hear...

Some years ago, I decided that although the rest of the interior of my airplane was/is reasonably acceptable, the headliner just had to go. It was the OEM Cessna vinyl crappola, cracked and split here and there, and generally detracted from the otherwise decent interior. So I had my IA install an Airtex mouse fuzz grey cloth headliner--and what a magnificent difference! The whole feeling of "this is nice" was, well, nice. Still is.

Is it quieter? I can't say it is or isn't--my airplane is pretty noisy anyway, and with an ANR headset, that really doesn't make much difference. Is it better insulated against the sun in summer and the cold in winter? I think so, but I haven't tried to measure it.

One thing I will say, and that is that I'm glad I didn't try to tackle the job myself. I probably would have ruined it.

One of the side benefits of removing the old headliner was that my IA discovered an illegal repair to the crossover vent line between the two fuel tanks, which he replaced.

Overall, I've been very pleased with having a new headliner, but each to his own. There was a time when a new pickup had a bare bones interior, no matter the model. Now the interior of a new pickup has a nicer interior than the Cadillacs of the 50s and 60s. Nice sells, but when it's yours, you decide.

Cary

corefile wrote:….. For those that have gone sans headliner - how do you handle the overhead lights?

"Pilot Light Pro", available from Aircraft Spruce.
Instrument & pinpoint map lights only.
No dome light.

hotrod180 wrote:

corefile wrote:….. For those that have gone sans headliner - how do you handle the overhead lights?

"Pilot Light Pro", available from Aircraft Spruce.
Instrument & pinpoint map lights only.
No dome light.

That looks pretty slick! do you have ships power or just using batteries ?

AEROPOD wrote:

dogpilot wrote: Aside from that, it does look a bit like a rusty '82 primer covered Chevy Camaro when you leave the interior out. To me that is. You may find it a minimalist, hipster thing of beauty. Taste varies.

All I needed to hear...

OK, now I just have to ask... Was it the rusty '82 Camaro or the minimalist thing of beauty that "got" you?

I went sans headliner...

JP256 wrote:

AEROPOD wrote:

dogpilot wrote: Aside from that, it does look a bit like a rusty '82 primer covered Chevy Camaro when you leave the interior out. To me that is. You may find it a minimalist, hipster thing of beauty. Taste varies.

All I needed to hear...

OK, now I just have to ask... Was it the rusty '82 Camaro or the minimalist thing of beauty that "got" you?

Yes

The gutted interior is just the latest fad. It's pretty cool to shed the weight the way guys have, but I do enjoy a nice interior and I'm willing to buck the trends.

TxAgfisher wrote:I went sans headliner...

That looks great!

I have 2 reasons I want to go foam/no head liner: 1. weight savings, I may be off but I have to believe that foam alone and no selkirk panels is a valuable weight savings. 2. I am 6"1" and I believe no head liner will give me another 1-2 inches of head room. I may be wrong but I hope I am right.
I do plan on using some form of wool or something to attach to the foam, I think this gives an awesome finished look but still gives you the head room I am looking for. On this note does anyone know of a source for aviation type wool that could be used for what I want to do? I have seen the colors for the airtex head liner wool but want something a little darker.
gypsy

Big misconception about aviation materials for interiors. There is no special stuff used in aircraft. They just have to have a burn certification that they only burn so far in so much time. Now many upholstery materials have incorporated this standard due to home safety concerns and incorporated fire retardant material into their products. Many of them come with a burn certification. You will be happy to know most high end, really expensive materials do not (sucker!). If you find a material that takes your breath away, but has no burn cert, you are in luck. Their are laboratories that do this and only charge around $100 per test. Look on the inter-web thing to find one.

So if you cannot live without that Yak fibre in a Sherpa pattern, you can get it tested and it is acceptable (provided it passes)

Aside from looking, not to my taste (which is of absolutely no consequence). I think it is a tad foolish to leave the side panels out. Your aircraft skin is kind of delicate. It does not take much of an impact from something sliding around inside to put a pooch mark dent sicking out. You can use aerodynamic smoothing putty to fill a divot, but you need to beat a small mound back in to fill it. Aluminum stretches, so there is no good fix. Seriously, even dropping a socket from 2' will dent your skin, think: suitcase, ice axe, bike pedal, tent pole, rifle, high heel shoe thrown and missed your head and so on. Look into the baggage compartment of something like a Twin Otter, which has a sacrificial liner in it. All it takes is One thing. Beside, you only save a few pounds, like when Skydivers remove the AC from Caravans, its only 50 lbs. (minuscule compared to effective load of 3,800 lbs) Have your Pax go to the restroom prior to flight, same savings. You may be pleased you put the interior back in when your Neanderthal camping buddy loads his special fat wheel bike into your plane and puts a big crease down the inside of your plane with the fork as he tries to force it in. Make that look go away.

As focused as I am on weight I will be leaving the headliner in my 170 for exactly the reason Dogpilot addressed. The sans headliner is a cool look, I do like it but after sending significients funds on the exterior paint I want to preserve it inside and out.

I’m with Dogpilot. I much prefer headliners, but side panels are essential in my opinion. These are using airplanes, and that means some unusual kinds of “luggage” will be carried.

As noted some of that “stuff” can leave a mark, even if you’re really careful. And, passengers can be really destructive, unintentionally.

I picked up a brand new Cessna 185, and one week later, I flew a guy out to a field camp. This “person” happened to have a bottle of 100% DEET in his hip pocket, which leaked. He got a burned ass, but my passenger seat had a huge hole melted in the foam.....forever.

And, if you want to talk gorillas who are used to loading their beater pickup, don’t even think of allowing ANYone to load even a plastic water bottle in your plane. Yes they can screw that up.

If all you want is to look like a backcountry trooper, fine, but if you’re ever actually going to use the thing, protect those side skins.

MTV

Just to expand the options...

At work the Cessna planes have a kydex headliner. It's pretty simple, flat across the top with a bend on each side so it angles steeply down to the door/windows. It's almost vertical on the sides, and the top is snug against the cabin top. A 4ft x 8ft sheet strategically cut and bent covers a whole 207. Closed cell foam insuation behind it. This gives the same headroom as no headliner, but is very rugged and even loading sharp items, they can't damage the skins. I can try to get a pic. Also makes it where mounting lights, headset jacks, AW docs, etc is no big deal. Looks very clean as well. I'll get a pic later.

In combination with the selkirk interior, makes the plane interior pretty bombproof.

I also went sans headliner with foam. I can't see the headliner it self adding much sound or temp insulation over the insulation. And with the 3/8" foam on the sidewall youd have to throw something at it pretty hard to make it dent. I'm happy with the finished product and it's my personal plane, so I will be loading and unloading it and can be as gentle as I feel I need to be. I like the look, but a headliner looks nice as well. If I couldn't have done the work myself I probably wouldn't have paid someone to do it.

A1skinner,
Is your foam the selkirk or aircrafspruce? I think I want to do as you have in the picture but add a wool type material to the individual foam pieces for finished look.
So you did not add the selkirk panels back to the inside of your plane? I have to believe that the foam with fabric will be a good protector of the skins except in the most extreme cases and someone being belligerent with the plane.
Just my thoughts.
gyspsy

gypsywagon wrote:A1skinner,
Is your foam the selkirk or aircrafspruce? I think I want to do as you have in the picture but add a wool type material to the individual foam pieces for finished look.
So you did not add the selkirk panels back to the inside of your plane? I have to believe that the foam with fabric will be a good protector of the skins except in the most extreme cases and someone being belligerent with the plane.
Just my thoughts.
gyspsy

Mine is the spruce stuff. Seems pretty good to me. I agree that wool attached to it would look good. I am not putting any other side panels on as I agree that if you are throwing stuff in hard enough to dent it with foam in there, you have no business being around a plane.