A year ago I had to land at Augusta,Maine on the way back from Greeneville on a Sunday afternoon.It is good size municipal airport,no tower and I had never been there.I taxied over to a small terminal building with a twin turbo-prop parked out front and shut my cub down.Before I could undo my belt a guy ran up to my window and frantically told me to move the plane and follow him.OK we taxied about about 200 ft to another building and shut down.The gentleman came back over to me and apologized for being so frantic.He pointed to where I had come from and said TSA !Evidently there is a commuter flight a couple times a day so TSA has a permanent presence.He is a flight instructor on the field and told me if they had seen my plane at the terminal I would have been screwed.He told me they continually hassle even based aircraft owners and the flight school operators and customers.

Here in Mass you have a picture ID badge for all airports except those operated by Massport.For those you need a separate badge.If you land at one even though I have the regular ID I cannot get out of my airplane and walk across the ramp.I must be escorted.Oh I forgot to mention you have to get a new badge every year if your based at a public use airport.It is BS for sure.
Funny story.Some corporate pilot based here left his ID badge in a hotel room in the Midwest during an overnite.I guess the maid found it and all hell broke loose.They called out everyone with a three letter acronym,shut down the local airport,the whole nine yards.
We are definitely on a downhill slide here.

Bill

This sounds kinda like what has been done at IDA. I don't have a badge but my Dad does and he has to escort me to the plane. Right now the badges are free but who knows how long that will last. When he found out about needing a badge he was pretty upset....said he could remember the days when IDA had no fence and if you mowed the grass where your plane was parked then parking was free.

I noticed that when I picked the plane up in Providance, RI. the previous owner had plastic badge about the size of a credit card. It had a magnetic strip to get in the building by GA. I took off and I thought no big deal. The Previous owner must have been my escort.

What happens when you land at Salt Lake City

Tim

Not flying related, but TSA. Just renewed my USCG Master's License today. What an experience. Coast Guard is now Dept. of Homeland Security. Used to go to the local office in JNU, give them the paperwork, pay them, and get your credentials. Now, you go to the regional office, get your fingerprints taken electronically, your entire file goes to Virginia, and you get to ONLY wait 3 - 4 months IF there are no mistakes. Miss an "i" or don't cross a "t" and you get to start over!!!!

But wait...there's more! You also get to go to the TWIC (Transportation Worker Identification Credential) place which is TSA (in a different part of town, of course), pay them, produce your Passport, get your fingerprints taken electronically AGAIN, and then wait 4 - 6 weeks for your little card to hang around your neck or put into some card reader at some giant sea port (like LA or Boston), put your finger on the reader, and wait for 8 - 30 minutes to see if you are really you!

All that to take a couple of guys fishing on a charter boat in Alaska. The world is a much safer place now. Sheesh!

gb

Gosh, I came to this site for a breath of fresh air, and instead keep running into this kind of thing. I've been flying since '74. Haven't flown since before 9/11 due to medical issues. Got my medical back a couple years ago, but haven't jumped back into flying yet, primarily because of this crap. So the question is, give up or fight back? Fighting back requires coordinated effort, including representation in DC - and, sorry if I gore anyone's sacred cow, but the AOPA is not that representation. Don't believe me, just look at their track record (yep, I'll be happy to provide examples but let's save that for later).

We need the kind of aggressive representation gun owners get from the NRA. Now, I've floated this idea to other groups, but at the end of the day they seemed more interested in grousing about the loss of freedom to fly than in actually trying to do something about it. So, I'll ask here - but just this once! Then, I'm going back to reading about airplanes and how to outfit myself with one that never needs to set foot (wheel?) on a paved runway!

My wife is a former aviation lobbiest. While her congressional contacts are 20 years old (that means they're mostly in jail or disgraced), she understands the process. I think with her guidance and the funds to hire the right folks to represent our interests in DC, we could create such an organization, and maybe just preserve our rights at the same time. Anyone interested?

And just when you thought our government couldn't be more ridiculous, check this out. Bin Laden must be as happy over this as 72 virgins next door.

TSA: Mule Skinners Need Background Check and ID's too

Second try.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/25/mule.s ... index.html

Ford Wilson wrote:Second try.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/25/mule.s ... index.html

Ford that is priceless. Pretty soon you'll need a criminal background check before going outside to pass wind.

OD, NRA for pilots...sounds good to me. Where do I sign up?

gb

One other little beauty is this. When they do a background check the agency conducting the check doesn't share any information with other agencies or with themselves if it requires more than one. Which creates more jobs, TSA, perceived power, etc. I had a workmate go through three separate ones and they claimed they knew nothing about the others. I just ordered a new Pelican case to carry all the stinking badges 'cuz my neck hurts.........

Doesn't the TSA understand that they are in the business of customer service which they should be doing serving. If they keep harassing people they are not going to want to fly, or sail, or mule and then they would be out of a job. duh.

btw, does anyone have a list of the airports that we be affected by this or do we have to just guess.

and yes OscarDeuce i'm all for a stronger voice in D.C. sign me up.

TrevDog wrote:Doesn't the TSA understand that they are in the business of customer service which they should be doing serving.

Oh, they'll "service" you all right. Just bend over...

Gump

Ford Wilson wrote:And just when you thought our government couldn't be more ridiculous, check this out. Bin Laden must be as happy over this as 72 virgins next door.

You know, in spite of the horrors of 9/11, and all the untold cost in human lives, misery, and money, you have to admit that Bin Laden was absolutely brilliant in his reading of the American government and the people of this nation. We reacted exactly like he wanted us to, and for a few thousand bucks worth of airline tickets changed the entire world.

Thanks to all the PC bullshit we aren't allowed to say that the Emperor has no clothes, but old Bin Laden just saw us standing there naked, and proceeded to kick our ass.

And we don't learn. Just keep stripping away freedoms and adding restrictions for "safety" and we become the beat down, fearful, backwards 11th century nation Bin Laden wants us to be.

Happy as 72 virgins next door is right...

Gump

OscarDuece, I agree that the AOPA hasn't been representing my interests, and I'd join an aggressive aviation organization that was modeled after the NRA in a heartbeat.

I think one of the things that really contributes to the NRA's effectiveness is their NRA-ILA program (institute for legislative action) that lobbies legislators, slaps lawsuits on organizations to defend our rights, etc.

I'd love to see the TSA get tied up with a bunch of lawsuits.

One problem is that unlike gun owners, pilot and airplane owners are a tiny percentage of the U.S. population. A common estimate is that half of the U.S. population owns guns, and the NRA only managed to achieve a little over 4 million members. What percentage of the 597,000 certificated pilots would join, and how much clout does that give you?

I think the organization would have to find some powerful friends in order to achieve success. Maybe the FAA could be persuaded to become an ally. They seem pretty serious about safety, and the number one type of GA accidents are weather related. All of the time required to comply with the newly proposed stupid TSA requirements of submitting passenger manifests and going through security and creating sterile areas all takes time away from windows of opportunity for good flying during times of bad weather. In other words, I think a decent argument could be made that instituting and complying with their new proposed regulations will end up getting people killed.

Regardless of the means, something must be done quickly to stop this attack on our freedoms before it's too late.

kevbert wrote:One problem is that unlike gun owners, pilot and airplane owners are a tiny percentage of the U.S. population. A common estimate is that half of the U.S. population owns guns, and the NRA only managed to achieve a little over 4 million members. What percentage of the 597,000 certificated pilots would join, and how much clout does that give you?

Kevbert:

I too have struggled with this issue. The pool of pilots is far smaller than the pool of gun owners. I do not pretend to be an expert in these matters (although I'm fortunate to know a few) but I would postulate that this may not be the major impediment it at first appears.

I think it's possible that it is the way the NRA fights for gun rights, moreso than the sheer number of gun owners, that had led to that organization's relative success. Said another way, there are large numbers of smokers, but sheer numbers alone have done little to curb smoking bans. I think the key is to have an organization that fights agressively rather than one that caves in quikly and placates its membership by saying, "well, without us it could have been worse."

I think another issue that will be a major stumbling block, is the attitudes of pilots versus the attitudes of gun owners.

In my own humble experience I see some real passion in gun owners in protecting their rights, and being willing to expend the time and money to look out for their interests. There is a reason for the power that the NRA wields, and it's not just from sheer numbers of the members.

Pilots on the other hand, tend to willingly accept the government noose, rationalizing the new regulations with, "It's in our best interest," and "for safety." I think these forums here on BCP bear witness to that, and is a good reflection of the general aviation population as a whole.

Some of us think differently, but I'm afraid we're a minority.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:I think another issue that will be a major stumbling block, is the attitudes of pilots versus the attitudes of gun owners.

In my own humble experience I see some real passion in gun owners in protecting their rights, and being willing to expend the time and money to look out for their interests. There is a reason for the power that the NRA wields, and it's not just from sheer numbers of the members.

Pilots on the other hand, tend to willingly accept the government noose, rationalizing the new regulations with, "It's in our best interest," and "for safety." I think these forums here on BCP bear witness to that, and is a good reflection of the general aviation population as a whole.

Some of us think differently, but I'm afraid we're a minority.

Gump

I'm with you gump!!!

Rob

Gump and Rob:

If we can't get more pilots passionate about protecting our right to fly we shall surely lose it altogether. First, we must dispense with the attitude that Flying (or gun ownership, or anything else for that matter) is a "privilege" bestowed on us by the government. It is our right, and like all rights, must be maintained by our willingness to fight for it either directly or by supporting those who do.

I have noticed more interest in pushing back by the folks on this forum than on alot of other aviation forums. Maybe backcountry pilots are a bit more self sufficient?

I have an areoplane with little numbers and some unregistered weapons, let me know if I can help. Oh, I also have some unmarked Russian ammo.

OscarDeuce wrote:I have noticed more interest in pushing back by the folks on this forum than on alot of other aviation forums. Maybe backcountry pilots are a bit more self sufficient?

I think some of the recent threads here on BCP, re: field repairs and FAA actions have drawn a huge line in the sand between the "rights" vs. "privilege" people who post here. I get the feeling from the reactions to my posts, that we "rights" people are the minority, and looked upon as cranky, dangerous old assholes, who are just one roll of duct tape and can of safety wire away from bringing further FAA wrath down upon the entire flying world.

Though in everyone's defense.... I AM a cranky old asshole. And probably dangerous as hell when up in an airplane.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:

Ford Wilson wrote:And just when you thought our government couldn't be more ridiculous, check this out. Bin Laden must be as happy over this as 72 virgins next door.

You know, in spite of the horrors of 9/11, and all the untold cost in human lives, misery, and money, you have to admit that Bin Laden was absolutely brilliant in his reading of the American government and the people of this nation. We reacted exactly like he wanted us to, and for a few thousand bucks worth of airline tickets changed the entire world.

Thanks to all the PC bullshit we aren't allowed to say that the Emperor has no clothes, but old Bin Laden just saw us standing there naked, and proceeded to kick our ass.

And we don't learn. Just keep stripping away freedoms and adding restrictions for "safety" and we become the beat down, fearful, backwards 11th century nation Bin Laden wants us to be.

Happy as 72 virgins next door is right...

Gump

You've got that right Bro.
Even if we were to locate old Bin Laden and plant one right up his cave. I think that the sad commentary is that he has already won the war, changed our way of life, "The American Way", I fear forever. Collectively, We The People do not have big enough ones to face reality and preserve what our fathers fought and died for.
Just my two cents.
SLW