Hello BCP,
Long time forum lurker, first time poster. Figured I'd start off with a bit of a write-up in the hope that someone may benefit from it as much as I have from many previous posts.

I recently purchased the Grove/Desser Tubeless Tundra Tire/Wheel/Brake kit available from Seaplanes North and Desser. Although I'm based on grass, the frequency of pavement landings I make have caused me to shy away from Alaskan Bushwheels. I haven't seen much in the way of reviews of Desser tundra tires, but have heard they wear well, so I figured I'd give them a shot.

The installation is covered by STC SA4305WE, amended August 2019, and held by Seaplanes North. As of my last conversation with Jeff at Seaplanes North, only Aero Classic 8.50x10 (AA4N3) and Aero Classic 29x11-10 (AA4AP) were added to the last revision of the STC, though they hope to add the Aero Classic 31x11-10 (AA4AL) soon. Grove Aircraft manufactures the 10x8.5 wheel (100-1008) and brake (29-1041) assemblies.

Per a Desser sales rep, and their website, the STC was to be included with the purchase of the kit. Long story short, that was not the case, and Desser has not replied to any of my voicemails or emails. I ended up paying Seaplanes North $300 for the STC, and have disputed Desser's charge with my credit card company. Seaplanes North was very helpful and emailed the STC as soon as payment was received.

Below are a few photos from the installation. At the time of this writing, I'm waiting on 2" longer brake lines to finish up. I'll try to keep this thread updated with my experiences going forward, and please feel free to add your own.

Equipment weight:
Grove 29-1041 brake assembly - 3.08 lbs
Grove 100-1008 wheel assembly - 13.84 lbs
Aero Classic 31331 (29x11-10) - 23.1 lbs
Aero Classic 31334 (8.50x10) - 22.5 lbs
Total w/ 29" tire: 40.02 lbs

Grove Aircraft 29-1041 brake assembly:


Grove Aircraft 100-1008 Wheel Assembly 10x8.5 (8" disc):


McCreary 8.50x6 vs Aero Classic 29x11-10:


McCreary 8.50x6 vs Aero Classic 29x11-10:


Installed:

The STC you linked is for Gar-Aero adaptors, none of the parts you specified. Those wheels/brakes are not approved in any way for your plane except for field approval as far as I know. Seaplanes North is *working* on an STC for that combo, as their website has said for years.

I think maybe you got confused or there was miscommunication? Or am I confused and they actually have finished the STC?

asa wrote:The STC you linked is for Gar-Aero adaptors, none of the parts you specified. Those wheels/brakes are not approved in any way for your plane except for field approval as far as I know. Seaplanes North is *working* on an STC for that combo, as their website has said for years.

I think maybe you got confused or there was miscommunication? Or am I confused and they actually have finished the STC?

Good catch, looks like STC database is lagging. The latest amendment of the STC (August 29, 2019) includes the following language after the original Gar-Aero stuff, "Or installation of Grove 10" wheels with Grove brakes and tundra type tires on the main landing gear in accordance with Seaplanes North Installation Instructions."

Airframes Alaska (who owns Alaska Bushwheels) has had an STC for 10 inch wheels and brakes on a variety of aircraft for a number of years.

Is there an advantage to these wheels/brakes vs the Airframes setup?

MTV

gotcha88 wrote:

asa wrote:The STC you linked is for Gar-Aero adaptors, none of the parts you specified. Those wheels/brakes are not approved in any way for your plane except for field approval as far as I know. Seaplanes North is *working* on an STC for that combo, as their website has said for years.

I think maybe you got confused or there was miscommunication? Or am I confused and they actually have finished the STC?

Good catch, looks like STC database is lagging. The latest amendment of the STC (August 29, 2019) includes the following language after the original Gar-Aero stuff, "Or installation of Grove 10" wheels with Grove brakes and tundra type tires on the main landing gear in accordance with Seaplanes North Installation Instructions."

Oh awesome, that's good news.

mtv wrote:Airframes Alaska (who owns Alaska Bushwheels) has had an STC for 10 inch wheels and brakes on a variety of aircraft for a number of years.

Is there an advantage to these wheels/brakes vs the Airframes setup?

MTV

The advantage looks to be that a person can run the treadless Aero Classic 8.50's or 29's which are much lighter than even the old shaved 29s.

akaviator wrote:The advantage looks to be that a person can run the treadless Aero Classic 8.50's or 29's which are much lighter than even the old shaved 29s.

Does the STC for the Airframes 10" wheels specify which brand 850x10 or 29x10 tires which must be used?
If not, these aero classics might be a lighter-weight option.

mtv wrote:Airframes Alaska (who owns Alaska Bushwheels) has had an STC for 10 inch wheels and brakes on a variety of aircraft for a number of years.

Is there an advantage to these wheels/brakes vs the Airframes setup?

MTV

Look at the picture that shows the brake rotor. It’s much larger in diameter so more braking torque. That’s the big thing that people talk about.

I believe it’s an 8” rotor vs. the normal 6” cleaveland style.

whee wrote:

mtv wrote:Airframes Alaska (who owns Alaska Bushwheels) has had an STC for 10 inch wheels and brakes on a variety of aircraft for a number of years.

Is there an advantage to these wheels/brakes vs the Airframes setup?

MTV

Look at the picture that shows the brake rotor. It’s much larger in diameter so more braking torque. That’s the big thing that people talk about.

Okay, I guess that makes some sense, though I've never felt like I needed more braking effectiveness with the Airframes brakes.

And, Airframes STC just spells out the size of tire (8.50 or 29) not brand, so you could run the same tires.

MTV

mtv wrote:

whee wrote:

mtv wrote:Airframes Alaska (who owns Alaska Bushwheels) has had an STC for 10 inch wheels and brakes on a variety of aircraft for a number of years.

Is there an advantage to these wheels/brakes vs the Airframes setup?

MTV

Look at the picture that shows the brake rotor. It’s much larger in diameter so more braking torque. That’s the big thing that people talk about.

Okay, I guess that makes some sense, though I've never felt like I needed more braking effectiveness with the Airframes brakes.

And, Airframes STC just spells out the size of tire (8.50 or 29) not brand, so you could run the same tires.

MTV

The Airframes STC (SA01765SE) does specify a "tube type tire" for 180/185s. When I called Airframes, they told me it needed to be the 29" Air Hawk, but the AML seems to be more flexible:
5. Must use ABI-1010 wheel with any FAA TSO-C62 revision approved 29 X 11 – 10, 4 ply tube type tire, or any FAA TSO-C62 revision approved 8.50 -10, 6 ply, tube type tire. Tire must be rated at, or above, the weight and speed rating of the aircraft.

For the record–I am in no way promoting this setup over ABWs, which I have no experience with.

For weight comparison:
Aero Classic 29" - 23 lbs
Air Hawk 29" (non-buffed) - 34 lbs
Air Hawk 29" (buffed) - 27 lbs
ABW 29" - 31 lbs
ABW 29" (heavy tread) - 34 lbs

So, what does a 29” air hawk with tube, wheel, and rotor weigh in comparison to a 6 bolt Cleveland with a 29” bushwheel?

Jeff at seaplanes north is actually running some of them tubeless. This set on a friends 185 are being run that way.

A few more photos:

Wow! Nice. I sure wish this set up had been available in the 90’s.

Nice set-up!
There's a similar discussion going on at the supercub site,
I was just looking at the Desser website as well as googling to try to find the 850x10 and/or 29x10 smoothies but no luck.
Can anyone point me toward pricing info?
A buddy of mine is running ABI 10" wheels & shaved 29x10 Airhawks,
these Desser tires might be a lighter, less expensive option if he ever wears out his Airhawks--
although that'll take some doing!

I've had these on my plane for a year now and everything works great. The rubber on the tires have not worn much at all and I'm about 50/50 pavement to off road. There was some confusion about the stc when I first received it but was able to resolve who had the authority. I did have an issue with some of the hardware called out for in the stc as some of the bolts were not long enough which I worked out with Seaplanes North. Some of this hardware was really expensive until I called Jerry at JC Aero who I've come to use for all aviation hardware supplies as he is fair and a straight shooter. All that said, the set up works well and other than some speed loss I am happy with it.

dlhanst wrote: All that said, the set up works well and other than some speed loss I am happy with it.

What's your real world estimate on speed loss, and what where you running before that you lost speed from? Also curious what size tailwheel you are running as well.

dlhanst wrote: I've had these on my plane for a year now and everything works great......

"These" being just what?
The Desser 29" smoothies, the 10" Grove wheels & brakes, and/or both?
FWIW Desser also makes an 850x10 smoothie.

hotrod180 wrote:Nice set-up!
There's a similar discussion going on at the supercub site,
I was just looking at the Desser website as well as googling to try to find the 850x10 and/or 29x10 smoothies but no luck.
Can anyone point me toward pricing info?
A buddy of mine is running ABI 10" wheels & shaved 29x10 Airhawks,
these Desser tires might be a lighter, less expensive option if he ever wears out his Airhawks--
although that'll take some doing!

I found them on the Desser site, but you have to search by brand, then do a specific search for the smooth tires. The web site did not provide a price, but rather a notice that "These tires are on backorder". Which of course could mean tomorrow or next year. My guess is, it isn't a short wait, otherwise they wouldn't have that up on the website.

MTV