An easy to move throttle can make a big difference in strong gusty crosswinds. A short final deceleration can make angling across comfortable. Full flaps make it comfortable. Throttle may need to go full in down air and then adjust rapidly. Throttle may need to go closed in a balloon and then adjust rapidly.

The fast down the centerline has limits. Problems tend to be pretty expensive. Touchdown at near zero groundspeed seldom leads to damage. The other control, throttle, is necessary to make it comfortable.

As with most things in aviation, smart pilots don't go there. Pipeline pilots do about once a week on average.

In many places and conditions, you NEED to be moving that throttle a lot, and sometimes in fairly big bursts of power, as contact suggests. In those situations, with a true vernier throttle, the only way to function is with your palm firmly holding down the button to release the vernier, and moving the throttle that way for me is very awkward. Wrist just isn't designed well for that sort of angle.

But, if you don't work tight spots in less than great conditions, might work just fine.

Me, I like very positive control of throttle. And, that button on the end of the vernier throttle isn't my idea of a great way to get there.

Your mileage may vary.

MTV

Well, all I have to say is my 17 year old received her PPL in an M5-180 Maule with a vernier throttle on her 17th birthday. She learned to fly in deep West Texas where the winds regularly blow over 20kts and gust to 10+ over the base wind.
She regularly lands in gusting crosswinds of 15kts + at 20-30 degrees off the nose in hot (100 degree+ ) days with the DA at 7K or so.
She goes back and forth daily between Maules, my C180, and Citabria’s.
I bet she uses the throttle some. Maybe more than the average (I know I do, and I fly commercially every day, in all kinds of tailwheel aircraft, at low altitudes, on and off airport in West Texas).
I have never once heard her even mention throttle type.
Just my opinion, but I think blanket statements that “Vernier Throttles are Bad, and cant be used to provide large throttle changes “just because someone doesn’t like to fly them, or hasn’t mastered the technique to use them is a disservice to folks who look to this forum for info when learning new techniques or researching aircraft types.
I know for a fact that their are many Maule drivers out there using the verniers that came in those aircraft everyday. And I know they are making large power setting changes in some tight spots.
I don’t know much, and sure don’t know everything, but I do know that.

You and your daughter have mastered what is a difficult technique for many of us. I have been able to avoid having to use much in the way of complex systems. I think the Vernier assist sounds like a good idea for those of us less adaptable to the original Vernier throttle.

mtv wrote:In many places and conditions, you NEED to be moving that throttle a lot, and sometimes in fairly big bursts of power, as contact suggests. In those situations, with a true vernier throttle, the only way to function is with your palm firmly holding down the button to release the vernier, and moving the throttle that way for me is very awkward. Wrist just isn't designed well for that sort of angle.

But, if you don't work tight spots in less than great conditions, might work just fine.

Me, I like very positive control of throttle. And, that button on the end of the vernier throttle isn't my idea of a great way to get there.

Your mileage may vary.

MTV

There's a lot of good convincing information (both ways) in this thread, however MTV's post makes a lot of sense to me. I recently installed a generic vernier throttle on my C-205 project plane. During the (difficult) install I kept thinking about the wrist angle of trying to activate the button while moving the throttle in a necessary burst of power during a downdraft on landing. I've messed up enough landings because I wasn't quick enough on the power burst, without the motion requiring another split second of valuable time to activate the button.

I'm going to change mine to the standard type or vernier assist. Anyone need a generic vernier?

I didn’t comprehend the “assist” part and jumped to conclusions. What is described sounds like a great idea.

On The Fly wrote:

mtv wrote:In many places and conditions, you NEED to be moving that throttle a lot, and sometimes in fairly big bursts of power, as contact suggests. In those situations, with a true vernier throttle, the only way to function is with your palm firmly holding down the button to release the vernier, and moving the throttle that way for me is very awkward. Wrist just isn't designed well for that sort of angle.

But, if you don't work tight spots in less than great conditions, might work just fine.

Me, I like very positive control of throttle. And, that button on the end of the vernier throttle isn't my idea of a great way to get there.

Your mileage may vary.

MTV

There's a lot of good convincing information (both ways) in this thread, however MTV's post makes a lot of sense to me. I recently installed a generic vernier throttle on my C-205 project plane. During the (difficult) install I kept thinking about the wrist angle of trying to activate the button while moving the throttle in a necessary burst of power during a downdraft on landing. I've messed up enough landings because I wasn't quick enough on the power burst, without the motion requiring another split second of valuable time to activate the button.

I'm going to change mine to the standard type or vernier assist. Anyone need a generic vernier?

I agree. Although I only fly one customers Maule that has a vernier, the others have all been converted to standard throttles. The verier assist is very costly, and I'm not sure I see the benefit. I can easily make 20 rpm changes when setting my cruise with my standard throttle, and in decents I'm not making such precise adjustments. I guess that makes me a throttle jockey, but it sure works well for getting my 206 in and out very short.

Throttle is the absolute best rate of descent control when used that way. Closing throttle, or just setting it in most natural conditions, gives up this best descent control with no advantage other than stabilized fixed control and take what you are dealt at that RPM. Stabilized long final is useful to get up to short final. Short final to touchdown must be slow pitch deceleration (apparent rate really helps) requiring throttle descent control to get in reasonably short. Stabilized to round out with fixed throttle is take what you are dealt. No poker smarts involved.

lcdrles wrote:Well, all I have to say is my 17 year old received her PPL in an M5-180 Maule with a vernier throttle on her 17th birthday. She learned to fly in deep West Texas where the winds regularly blow over 20kts and gust to 10+ over the base wind.
She regularly lands in gusting crosswinds of 15kts + at 20-30 degrees off the nose in hot (100 degree+ ) days with the DA at 7K or so.
She goes back and forth daily between Maules, my C180, and Citabria’s.
I bet she uses the throttle some. Maybe more than the average (I know I do, and I fly commercially every day, in all kinds of tailwheel aircraft, at low altitudes, on and off airport in West Texas).
I have never once heard her even mention throttle type.
Just my opinion, but I think blanket statements that “Vernier Throttles are Bad, and cant be used to provide large throttle changes “just because someone doesn’t like to fly them, or hasn’t mastered the technique to use them is a disservice to folks who look to this forum for info when learning new techniques or researching aircraft types.
I know for a fact that their are many Maule drivers out there using the verniers that came in those aircraft everyday. And I know they are making large power setting changes in some tight spots.
I don’t know much, and sure don’t know everything, but I do know that.

I fly a 1989 Maule M7-235 out of Iraan, Texas, another gusty, hot, variable windy West Texas area. The strip is aligned with the middle of town at an angle to a 500' hill less than a 1/4 mile from centerline. The hill causes swirling wind and the town always has a pothole or riser on close final.I almost never get the opportunity to just set the throttle for decent and ride her to the ground.
I learned to fly here in a 1946 140, have owned a 1958 182, and along with the Maule, also currently own a 1948 170. I like the verier in the Maule and have not ever had trouble with quick throttle adjustments. I use the verier to make fine adjustment all the way down to the final burst of power before touchdown. The pad of my hand naturally squeezes the button when I apply power for touchdown. The action is not a forethought, but just a natural grip on the throttle.



I totally agree with lcdries about a blanket statement of dislike, all of my old classics had a different feel, but there was never a single thought given on final about the difference. I would hate to know I would deny myself a flight in a Cub because of the difference in throttle angle or action. I believe a Otter has an overhead throttle, and I'll damn sure take the opportunity to learn to like it.

So, I like a Airplanes with throttles, oh wait, I want to fly a glider.

I love Iraan.

Flying pipeline, I appreciated towns with airports close enough to ride a bike to town. I used courtesy cars many places, but after a day in a 172 in 100 degree heat at 200,' climbing into another vehicle was not fun. Very nice deceleration to land on the beginning of the strip.

wtxdragger wrote:

lcdrles wrote:Well, all I have to say is my 17 year old received her PPL in an M5-180 Maule with a vernier throttle on her 17th birthday. She learned to fly in deep West Texas where the winds regularly blow over 20kts and gust to 10+ over the base wind.
She regularly lands in gusting crosswinds of 15kts + at 20-30 degrees off the nose in hot (100 degree+ ) days with the DA at 7K or so.
She goes back and forth daily between Maules, my C180, and Citabria’s.
I bet she uses the throttle some. Maybe more than the average (I know I do, and I fly commercially every day, in all kinds of tailwheel aircraft, at low altitudes, on and off airport in West Texas).
I have never once heard her even mention throttle type.
Just my opinion, but I think blanket statements that “Vernier Throttles are Bad, and cant be used to provide large throttle changes “just because someone doesn’t like to fly them, or hasn’t mastered the technique to use them is a disservice to folks who look to this forum for info when learning new techniques or researching aircraft types.
I know for a fact that their are many Maule drivers out there using the verniers that came in those aircraft everyday. And I know they are making large power setting changes in some tight spots.
I don’t know much, and sure don’t know everything, but I do know that.

I fly a 1989 Maule M7-235 out of Iraan, Texas, another gusty, hot, variable windy West Texas area. The strip is aligned with the middle of town at an angle to a 500' hill less than a 1/4 mile from centerline. The hill causes swirling wind and the town always has a pothole or riser on close final.I almost never get the opportunity to just set the throttle for decent and ride her to the ground.
I learned to fly here in a 1946 140, have owned a 1958 182, and along with the Maule, also currently own a 1948 170. I like the verier in the Maule and have not ever had trouble with quick throttle adjustments. I use the verier to make fine adjustment all the way down to the final burst of power before touchdown. The pad of my hand naturally squeezes the button when I apply power for touchdown. The action is not a forethought, but just a natural grip on the throttle.

I totally agree with lcdries about a blanket statement of dislike, all of my old classics had a different feel, but there was never a single thought given on final about the difference. I would hate to know I would deny myself a flight in a Cub because of the difference in throttle angle or action. I believe a Otter has an overhead throttle, and I'll damn sure take the opportunity to learn to like it.

So, I like a Airplanes with throttles, oh wait, I want to fly a glider.

Excuse me, I guess I must have missed the part of my post that said I wouldn’t fly an aircraft with a vernier throttle. Or did you simply not read my post?

A couple folks on here assume because I state that I dislike a style of throttle, I wouldn’t or couldn’t fly a particular aircraft. Seriously? In case you REALLY didn’t read my entire post, I noted that the airplane I currently own has a vernier throttle......funny I’d actually BUY an airplane with one of those.

And, I didn’t suggest you CANNOT function in “sporty” wind conditions with that throttle....I simply pointed out that it’s easier to do so with a “conventional” throttle.

Maule pilots seem to get their panties in a big wad any time someone critiques a Maule. Here’s a news flash: many moons ago, my employer bought a Maule to evaluate the type for our purposes. As an evaluator, I put ~200 hours on that aircraft. Other pilots flew it as well. Turned out I was the only one of the evaluators who felt the airplane would serve well in our fleet. They never bought another, which I thought was unfortunate.

So, in future, please READ these posts carefully, and don’t assume someone is attacking your favorite aircraft simply because they dislike one feature of it.

MTV

Vernier assist its different than vernier throttle.
Vernier assist Its just a regular throttle , but with the addition of vernier, no difference at all in operating it than a normal throttle,but adds a nice feature which is the vernier.

I would not want to put a vernier only throttle in my plane, I feel might be more of a challenge in situations where you want quick short throttle inputs, like when sinking and adding power before touch down, or windy gusty conditions, I have never tried one though, so its just a perception.

lcdrles wrote:Well, all I have to say is my 17 year old received her PPL in an M5-180 Maule with a vernier throttle on her 17th birthday.
...
She goes back and forth daily between Maules, my C180, and Citabria’s.
.

Lucky kid, congrats on having a willing protege. I can only hope mine will follow suit.

I soloed in a lawnmower when I was 22, and went back and forth between various lawnmowers, weedeaters, and chainsaws.

McFarlane is a new advertiser here on BCP. If you're in the market for a new throttle control, consider their vernier assist. It's what I'm installing. Best of both worlds.

MTV

I read every word of every post on this forum and have since I joined; and between you, Jim Dulin, and Patrick Romano, I have really learned to fly my airplanes.
The information in this forum is similar in trying to learn to play golf by reading Golf Digest, the knowledge is here for every sort of flying, but a person has to take what they need to "fit their mission" as we say.
I apologize for adding my opinion of the vernier throttle, probably wasn't worthy, since I'm just a Maule pilot, who also flies old Cessnas.

Mercifully Free from the Ravages of Intelligence
wtxdragger

wtxdragger wrote:MTV

I read every word of every post on this forum and have since I joined; and between you, Jim Dulin, and Patrick Romano, I have really learned to fly my airplanes.
The information in this forum is similar in trying to learn to play golf by reading Golf Digest, the knowledge is here for every sort of flying, but a person has to take what they need to "fit their mission" as we say.
I apologize for adding my opinion of the vernier throttle, probably wasn't worthy, since I'm just a Maule pilot, who also flies old Cessnas.

Mercifully Free from the Ravages of Intelligence
wtxdragger

Your opinion is more than welcome. All I was doing was stating that my posts represented my opinion.

Nothing hard and fast suggested.

Take care and enjoy your choice of throttles....

MTV