Any thoughts on the Vanguard S2? I am in the market for a .223 and want something reliable, sturdy and functional. I am planning to use it for just about anything you would want a .223 for - except defence. No need for that. I think the time has come for me to give thumbholes a chance too.

I am also considering Remington 700, since I had a .308 a few years back. I was very happy with it, but I understand that the quality control have not been their strong suit, and that getting a 700 can be a bit hit and miss. If I felt confident I would get a good one, I would be happy with a 700 in .223.

I am up for suggestions, but AR-types are out and that is non-negotiable. It is all sorts of paperwork for them, and I don't really like the style anyway. For my use I don't think anything with an accutrigger is any good either. Otherwise nothing fancy. Being able to open the bolt with the safety on is neat, but seems all guns have that now. Rugged and reliable, maybe even a little rough, and something that it would not be considered a waste to send to a gunsmith to get polished in a few years. Price does matter. A cheapish stock does not bother me, even though I am considering the Wby V Spike Camp. It is a bonus if it is nice, but I have swapped stocks on almost all my guns anyway. I am planning to put something like the Leupold Mk 4 or Burris Veracity on it.

I expect someone to suggest Tikka, but here in Norway they are weirdly expensive.

Just curious, why not a accutrigger? Also, I don’t think I would buy anything without a 3 position safety anymore. They are just handy.

Pete

The 223 and it's slightly larger cousin the 243 are by far my most favorite calibers and cover 75% of the hunting I do, the other 25% is done with a scatter gun of various gauges. I value accuracy over any other feature in a rifle, for me its a Ruger #1. The 233 fits very well in my gun locker for the smaller varmint size game out to about the 150 yards range. On an ascetics level the style of the Ruger #1 works very well for me eye, its very pleasing to look at.

pburns wrote:Just curious, why not a accutrigger?

I have not used it other than dry firing in the store, and on the range, so I guess I should not insist too much on it... But when making fast shots, it felt in the way, and getting my finger on the trigger was a bit awkward. As I use my guns, I don't see how it could do anything for safety either. Accidental discharges of hunting rifles are very rare here, and none that I know that would be remedied by an accutrigger more than proper handling. Don't think I am insinuating that people who like accutrigger do not know how to handle a gun! Think of it more as me being aware of my own habits, and wanting to stick to them.

I am sure there are uses where it shines, but I dont see it for my use. I think that value depreciation of accutrigger rifles are greater here in Norway too. I suppose we are old fashioned over here. I would love a minimauser, but they are either expensive or need a lot of work - like my old CZ 527. I am not aware of any decent ones in the 750-1000USD range.

100% agree on three position safety!

Mapleflt wrote:The 223 and it's slightly larger cousin the 243 are by far my most favorite calibers and cover 75% of the hunting I do, the other 25% is done with a scatter gun of various gauges. I value accuracy over any other feature in a rifle, for me its a Ruger #1. The 233 fits very well in my gun locker for the smaller varmint size game out to about the 150 yards range. On an ascetics level the style of the Ruger #1 works very well for me eye, its very pleasing to look at.

I don't know if I trust myself enough to wield a single shot! But it is really cool, alright! Totally get what you mean with the ascetics mindset. I also sometimes hunt game where I can pick off a few before they know whats going on.

I personally haven't been able to "warm up" to the thumb hole look, it just doesn't work for my eye.

To be hones, I am not completely sure I am there yet myself. But the Wby might be the one to try... Does not seem like they offer a semi-heavy, shortist barrel on any other. The Rem 700 Tactical also looks nice even though the barrel might be a little bit heavier than I need. It's more like what I usually prefer.

EDIT: Just got a good quite on the Remmy, might just go for that... Looks like a mini version of my old 700 Police that I liked very much!

My quirks continue I also much prefer a wooden stock, call it a weakness on my part but I'm ok with it.

I like the Accutrigger, but I don’t hunt, I only target shoot. Lets you keep a very light trigger pull, but safely. And I’ve found I kinda like feeling of preloading the center blade when settling in for the shot.

I think you could drop in any aftermarket trigger though for a given rifle if the trigger was the one thing you don’t like. Timney, Elftmann, etc.

That’s strange that Tikkas are expensive there. Must be some trade issue with Finland. Are other Finnish goods expensive?

The Weatherby looks good, I’d say just grab it. I do find the .223 bolt action to be kind of a weird use case though. Makes sense for an AR but not sure the best for hunting (or so I have read.) I enjoy mine (Savage 10 .223) for the short range accuracy but at any real distance becomes an artillery shot.

No trade issue I with finland that I know of... I think we have really good relations with them! If anything, I think the problem might be that Tikkas are TOO popular and very high in demand.

Timny makes aftermarket trigger for the guns I with accutrigger I have been considering, but it brings the total cost up to other rifles I kind of want more to begin with.

It is interesting to hear the the different hunting philosophies in the US. I think you use it for bigger game than we do. I would never point it at something bigger than a roebuck, and probably not over 200 meters either. The most common use for me would be things like grouse in the winter, geese and fox.

Autos needs all kind of paperwork, and hunters here seem to prefer the simpler bolt mechanisms anyway. Not that many are into any kind of range shooting, like long range or dynamic either.

I am waiting for someone to give me a quote on the Wby. I got a very tempting offer on the Rem 700 Tac already...

Varanger wrote:I have not used it other than dry firing in the store, and on the range, so I guess I should not insist too much on it... But when making fast shots, it felt in the way, and getting my finger on the trigger was a bit awkward. As I use my guns, I don't see how it could do anything for safety either. Accidental discharges of hunting rifles are very rare here, and none that I know that would be remedied by an accutrigger more than proper handling. Don't think I am insinuating that people who like accutrigger do not know how to handle a gun! Think of it more as me being aware of my own habits, and wanting to stick to them.

I am sure there are uses where it shines, but I dont see it for my use. I think that value depreciation of accutrigger rifles are greater here in Norway too. I suppose we are old fashioned over here. I would love a minimauser, but they are either expensive or need a lot of work - like my old CZ 527. I am not aware of any decent ones in the 750-1000USD range.

Didn't take it that way at all. Just curious, as I had the same hesitations. I ended up with one the first year they came out, because I wanted that particular rifle, so I definitely was worried about the gimmick and reliability factor. Turns out, it hasn't been a issue in quick shots or when wearing light gloves and I have had zero reliability issues with it as well. I have gotten used to it and kind of like it although it wouldn't be a necessity an future purchases. Zane is on the right page though. Get the rifle you want and if you want a different trigger just put a aftermarket one in. Keep us posted.

Pete

Thanks for the feedback. The Ruger American Ranch is also up for consideration then! If I can get a good price, the Wby and the Rem are my first choices, but the Ruger is already quite a bit cheaper. Though with a new trigger it will be more expensive, but hey… Since I am considering thumbhole rifles maybe I should also be open for accutriggers!

Is Bergara an option for you? They seem to be pretty decent out of the box. Otherwise, I would steer you toward the R700. The aftermarket is so deep for them, that you'll be able to take the base rifle and make it into whatever your heart desires.

I have the Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmore and I love it. The Ruger series of rifle is pretty rugged and reliable out of the box. It'll save you a few dollars and you get a reliable weapon. I've considered a Ranch model in .223 as well. I like the box magazine as well as the size. Wouldn't eat a lot of room in your airplane and can take a beating. Ruger isn't the most expensive weapon out there but I think their product is one of the most reliable.

Greg

The Bergara B14 is definetely an option, yes! A while ago, it was my first choice, then I sorta forgot it... Thanks for reminding me. The B14 Stoke is avaliable in .223 so I wont have to wait for it either. It's the right kind of rifle, and it is quite the looker IMHO.

I know it is compatible with a lot of the Rem 700 accessories too, so that is a big plus. The base model is a little bit plasticky, but if I can swap baseplate and triggerguard with something made for the 700, then it's all good.

There is really a lot of very nice bolt rifles in my price range, but the extended use of polymers annoys me a little. Probably doesn't have any practical effect, and it also likely a LOT more rugged and reliable than I think. I think the Bergara has all the right bits made from metal, or easily replacable for something made for the 700.

So thanks, man! Had totally forgotten about it

EDIT: The Stoke is for smaller people than me :/ Other models are difficult to come by or expensive. Still up to consideration!

56Tripacer wrote:I have the Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Creedmore and I love it. The Ruger series of rifle is pretty rugged and reliable out of the box. It'll save you a few dollars and you get a reliable weapon. I've considered a Ranch model in .223 as well. I like the box magazine as well as the size. Wouldn't eat a lot of room in your airplane and can take a beating. Ruger isn't the most expensive weapon out there but I think their product is one of the most reliable.

Greg

It is on my list, and it is the cheapest one. It is nice, yes. I am just having a hard time trying to get over the polymer trigger guard and the accutrigger. I know it will work just fine. But if I keep thinking about it, and want to do anything about it, then I end up with spending a whole lot more than I had planned. It would probably be easier if I could just go try one for real, but they are sort of rare. Thanks for your input though. I am still considering it!

Bit off topic, but agree with staying away from the 'plastic' type of trigger guard. My son in law and I were sighting in our rifles and I'm not sure if it was due to the cold or what, but it snapped off when he fired. New rifle...out of commision! I do know that the stuff can snap like glass in the cold. Stick with aluminum or steel for me.

Lots of folks like the American Ranch

https://ruger.com/products/americanRifl ... odels.html

300BO is a good round, especially if you want to run sub sonics and a suppressor, supers hit plenty hard for most any game

They also have it in 5.56 nato, which works with 223, as well as in 223 though all my 223s are 223wylde

I’d toss a LPVO on it like a vortex 1-6X

https://vortexoptics.com/optics/riflesc ... cation=982

Closer range if works like a red dot sight, 6x it’ll work for most longer ranges people are comfortable shooting


Not many folks shooting sports folks buying Remingtons or weatherbys anymore

Thanks for the advice, and definetely worth considering. I am not sure it will suit me, though... Firstly, I am set on .223. It is widely accessible and one of the cheapest rounds here. The subsonics based on the .223 cartridge is not legal for roe deer here, and at some range game can easily move. As a comparison, a .22 is nice for smaller game, but after I tried .17 HMR then there is no going back. The bullet arrives at its destination instantaneosly.

The cartridge is not a DQ for the Ruger, since it comes in 5.56/.223 but the polymer bits might be. As far as I can tell, atleast the trigger guard, safety and the bolt shroud is made form polymer. One of the main intended uses will be for hunting at some range above the tree line in the winter. I would like to avoid anything that might break in the cold, especially if it is not a discreet, replaceable part like the trigger guard. For the Ruger is it molded into the stock. Not sure how easy it is to get parts for it over here either.

I live at lattitude 62, and hunt from here and up to 71, so light can also be low. So the scope I am looking for will be something with a 50mm lens and a forgiving eye relief for faster shots. I am considering an aimpoint for the times where I will be hunting in late summer and fall below the tree line.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the style of the Ruger! I am just not sure if will fit my use. It will very likely work very well, but I don't want to be test pilot. Now, if I could get my hands on a Ruger scout in .223, then I would be sold! It checks all the importan boxes and looks cool. Sadly, I can't find it here, and no dealer wants to import it for me :/

I went to have a look at a Howa 1500 yesterday and really liked what I saw. A very budget friendly, tried and tested gun. As far as I can tell, also identical with Wby. The Rem 700 tactical is still my favorite, but I am not sure I can skip the Howa considering the price. Parts are also readily avaliable.

Closing the deal on a Howa 1500 Hogue Varmint in .223 now.

I skimped a bit on the scope, and vent for a Vector Continental 2.5-15x56. It has a 24 inch barrel, but I will probably cut it to 20 and put a silencer on it. Not so much for the bang, but more for the recoil. Could put a muzzle brake on it, but why not make it just a little bit more quiet?

Dont really like the Hogue stock but its good enough. Lots of aftermarket stocks for it. If I can get a good price on a light M40-style stock, I will probably get that in the future.

Cant wait to get it and go try it out! I really wanted the 700, but the wait time was too long. I can have the Howa within a week or two, and spend the summer practicing before hunting season starts.

Howa makes a fine rifle. I'd really like to have one of their mini actions for a 7.62x39 or 300 blackout build. Not sure what the twist rate is on their .223 barrels are, but hopefully it's fast enough for you to use heavier bullets. The 77gr Sierra Matchkings are like laser beams.

1:8 or 1:9 I think. It should stabilize heavier bullets alright. I am having it chopped from 24 to 20 inches since I wont hunt over 200 meter/yards, and as far as I can tell many people still shoot waaay beyond that with short barrels.

In Norway we have laws on kilojoules for each kind of game, and they are on the safe side. So 223 is legal on roe deer but not boars. Most of us use it for smaller game, like goose, grouse, hare etc. And most of what we shoot we eat. Kilojoule is probably the best way to measure killing power, but it it does not give the whole picture. This means we tend to like lighter bullets, and often FMJ. I will probably be shooting Norma match 55 grs, and I really hope the twist is not too aggressive.

Almost all guns come with 1:8 here now. I was looking for something with 1:10 or 1:12 but could not find anything. So out of all the 1:8 guns, I narrowed it down to Remington and Weatherby/Howa. Still I feel quite confidend in my chioce, and I think it will work just fine.

At a later point I will probably buy a rimfire for the smallest game, but with some practice 223 should do just fine for most.